Geek question on sharpened knives

J

jbib

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It is clearly a selling point when selling a knife if it is"unsharpened. My question is how easy is it to identify a sharpened knife. For instance Emerson offers the service. If an old Emerson were sharpened by them, ethical question aside, how difficult would it be to determine it was sharpened when offered for sale?
 
When in doubt, just call up the maker/manufacturer/dealer and ask to confirm whether a knife is sharpened or not. Even better if you can get it in writing in an email.

I can't think of more than one or two manufacturers of traditional knives who have a habit of sending out unsharpened knives, and I don't recall any of them describing it as a selling point. If anything, i believe it's a cost cutting measure. Most manufacturers sell sharpened knives, but they differ in the quality of edges delivered.
 
oldmanwilly said:
When in doubt, just call up the maker/manufacturer/dealer and ask to confirm whether a knife is sharpened or not. Even better if you can get it in writing in an email.

I can't think of more than one or two manufacturers of traditional knives who have a habit of sending out unsharpened knives, and I don't recall any of them describing it as a selling point. If anything, i believe it's a cost cutting measure. Most manufacturers sell sharpened knives, but they differ in the quality of edges delivered.
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. When looking at ads of knives for sale by individuals is where I see "unsharpened". In effect Representing the knife hasn't been sharpened since purchase.
 
Unsharpened usually means the factory grind angle remains. I’ve sold a few I’ve sharpened and I put a narrower angle on mine. So it won’t look like a factory edge. Some people don’t like this ( collectors) but I usually use my knives.
 
jbib said:
how difficult
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I'm going to assume that is not your actual question, but that you are using it as shorthand for "How can I tell?" I'll answer both, forgive me if I'm captain obvious here.

It is as easy as the edge makes it. If the factory knives tend to come with consistent edges of a certain quality, then a simple comparison of a factory knife with the knife for sale will tell you either that it has or has not been sharpened, or that it has been sharpened so well and consistently with the factory process that it doesn't matter anyway.
 
Describing a knife as "unsharpened", by itself, isn't worth much. Because a knife could have been extensively carried and used without being sharpened by the owner, but still appear to have it's factor edge.

However, if a knife is described as "never used, never sharpened, original condition", then I could see that as a selling point.

As far as knives being sent back to the manufacturer for re-sharpening, I wouldn't necessarily see that as a depreciating factor. Because the manufacturer is likely putting the same edge on the knife that it originally had. And if the manufacturer puts good edges on their knives, I'd say that's a good thing.

The only way I would see it as a bad thing is if having the knife re-sharpened by the manufacturer is the result of the knife being used, and the seller advertises the knife as "unused". Or, because every sharpening takes off some amount of steel and takes the knife further away from "original condition". How much steel is removed is determined by how dull the edge is, and by the skill of the one doing the sharpening.

As far as how to tell if a knife has been re-sharpened, you would either need to know what the original edge looked like, or, you need to trust the seller (buying knives from people on the internet requires a lot of trust). But if the knife were re-sharpened by the manufacturer, or by some other professional who did a really good job, then you might not be able to tell, especially if the rest of the knife looks new.
 
jbib said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. When looking at ads of knives for sale by individuals is where I see "unsharpened". In effect Representing the knife hasn't been sharpened since purchase.
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Thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense. The only way to tell is to look as closely as you can for uneven scratches near the edge, or lack thereof if a mirror polish has been achieved by a guided system. There is a certain level of trust needed between buyer and seller.

I concur with K killgar that listing a knife on the secondary market as "unsharpened factory edge" or "Never carried, used or sharpened" is a good selling point to represent the knife as brand new or "like new" and therefore worth a higher price. Personally, I don't mind buying a resharpened knife off the exchange so long as I see adequate pics proving the edge hasn't been irreparably damaged.

But I'm a cheapskate, on the prowl for a deal where I can find it.

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I think what the op is referring to is in ads that describe the condition of a new, never carried, never sharpened or unsharpened knife for sale. To the op, this means the seller is claiming that the edge is new never been sharpened and has the factory edge. Some collectors like the knives to be unmolested in any way like it is fresh out of the manufacturer hands . It doesn’t mean it isn’t sharp or not sharpened from the manufacturer. As far as confirming the sharpness or lack of sharpness you would have to ask the manufacturer or maker.
 
Easiest way for me to tell is by looking for the machining marks on the secondary bevel, and making sure theyre uniform along the entire length of the blade compared to pictures of NIB examples from a dealer. Most manufacturers use machining equipment to put an initial edge on their blades, so the grind will be perpendicular to the apex/edge direction from this process.

That being said, a lot of factory edges aren't very good, and can also have large burrs and other non uniform characteristics about them (bad angles, uneven bevels, etc), so these being present aren't always indicative of a resharpened edge. However, when most people resharpen or touch up an edge their sharpening technique and gear will distort the uniform direction of the factory grind, which can be a 'tell' that the knife has seen some form of sharpening since leaving the package.

The peaks of the factory grind marks can also have a polished appearance to them that will show up on the apex too (from people using fine stones to clean up a burr without removing the factory grind marks).

As for whether or not it was factory resharpened before being presented as 'factory edge' (which is dishonest unless seller discloses it was sent back) check the width of the bevel against stock photos. If the sharpening angle remains the same, and the primary bevel isnt ground down to compensate (which most people dont do on factory knives), the bevel will get wider as it moves up the blades vertical plane.

This is everything I look for. When in doubt, ask for good pictures of the edge area from different angles in good lighting.
 
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As said, scratch patterns and uniformity can be indicative of a new factory edge. In my experience, an indicator that a knife has been sent back to the factory for a sharpening is being over sharpened, to the point that a noticeable amount of blade has been ground away (looking at you, Benchmade, Spyderco, and Ontario).
 
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