Gemini review, don't judge a book by its cover?

[benzy2]

I've had my Gemini now for a couple months and feel I've had enough time to form an qualified opinion.

I had been searching for basically a classy frame lock flipper. I wanted a steel lock bar insert, a decent blade steel, rather simply yet sleek titanium scales, and a fit and finish that was good to great. I wanted a knife with good flipping action as well, nothing worse than a flipper knife that doesn't want to flip. So the Gemini seemed like the perfect fit.

Out of the box impressions:
What a let down. The blade is touching the presentation scale side. The blade comes out easy but is so far off centered it rubs. I grab the Torx driver and sure enough, the pivot is just way too loose. I had heard some people could crank it down right but when I did that, the thing wouldn't flip. I adjusted it just till it was smooth but not stuck and it worked well. Not the greatest action, but good enough for the price.

First week impression:
Still not thrilled. The pivot is very picky. A little too tight and it won't open, a little too loose and it off centered. I can tell things are breaking in as when the pivot is snugged down it is getting easier to open. Manageable but still a lot of work to keep it right.

Second week impression:
Better. By now, the pivot has gotten to where I can tighten it down snug and the flipper tab works ok. Still not perfect flipping but acceptable. At this point I use a small amount of thread lock and snug the pivot and let it sit. After a day of drying, I spend a few hours flipping the knife while watching a movie.

First month impressions:
This is the knife I wanted. The flipper is smooth and light and nearly impossible to not flip open fully. Not quite as good flipping as the ZT 0450 but very good. The feel in hand is great, the blade shape works for me, everything has fallen into place. I'm very glad I gave it time. I like the overall shape of the knife better than the 0450 and as such it's become my EDC (until the small Sebenza shows up). For the money, I think this knife fits me better than anything else out there.

I thought I misjudged what the knife would be when it first showed up. I had heard it was better than what I received. A big part of me wanted to quickly send it back and try something else. I also misjudged what the knife would break in to be. It is everything I had read and more. The quality is very very good. I'm not sure what else I could really have asked it to be, especially at this price.

The moral for me was to give things a chance and then when you're frustrated, give them another chance. A little bit of time made this a real winner of a knife.

 

[ChazzyP]

This is the second thoughtful thread you've started in the last couple days, Benzy, and I find myself posting in both of them as I wrote earlier today in the one over in CRK land. I'll have to trust no is thinking I've become a Benzy fanboy.

Initial disappointment in a new knife is a feeling most of us here have shared from time to time. I think for each of us, anticipation builds as we await our latest online purchase. We follow the tracking, read reviews, and excitedly await that next, best knife. This is all heightened by the fact that our purchase comes to us sight unseen and often as not we have not even handled an example that model. Honestly, quite a few of my far-to-numerous purchases have presented themselves with at least a little let-down. I think it's only natural.

Of course your knife's condition gave you actual cause for complaint. It's your response that set your reaction apart from those too many expressions of anger, complaint, and accusation that one so often reads on these pages. You didn't start a negative feedback thread, write a nasty letter to the retailer or maker, or send the knife back immediately for replacement or refund. Instead you methodically set about adjusting the pivot and breaking the knife in.

I've conditioned myself to react in much the same way to stanch any tendency to get too worked up if something seems not-quite-right. I buy many more blades on the Exchange here than new and complaints to private sellers and returns are generally not that well-met, so one is better served by a bit of patience. Many "used" knives are pretty close to LNIB and still not broken in. Unless the action and centering is close to perfect, I'll tweak the pivot and shift the scales to see what can be done about it. I'm extra pleased if the pivot and other screws aren't loc-tited to save me the trouble of breaking them loose. Like you, I'll get the knife as close to the way I want it and then set about using it to break it in. It's surprising how little time it takes for some of them to come around. If the knife seems to need more than a little, I'll run it a bit tight to hasten the wear-in and avoid any more lubrication than absolutely necessary toward that same end. If the knife resists these efforts after some time, then it comes apart, gets cleaned out, surfaces polished, then reassembled and re-adjusted. I'd much rather mess with a knife and get it right than make a stink and end the experience at the point of disappointment. I've gone a long time with a lot of knives before I get to the point that I say, "there", give it a final lube, and loc-tite the pivot.

I am pleased to own knives that disappointed to start but came to be favorites as a result of slowly getting them right. Tinkering shows you what makes a knife tick and helps make it one's own. Your patience and approach turned a let-down into a knife you're very pleased to own. Good work, man!

PS: I guess no one will think me a Benzy fanboy--just a guy competing for longest post in a still-short thread.

 

[Otto Carpenter]

I am pleased to own knives that disappointed to start but came to be favorites as a result of slowly getting them right. Tinkering shows you what makes a knife tick and helps make it one's own.

Very true, ChazzyP. Most knives have been designed with care and can be made right again with a little bit of patience and determination. I bought a TAD Dauntless used on the Exchange. Loved the size and aesthetic - perfect small EDC. When I got it, the action was balky. I figured a thorough break-in period was what it needed, so I went about working the knife over a period of days.

The action actually deteriorated. The blade was centered but it was stubborn on opening and closing. Can't tell you how disappointed I was, after all the hype on Youtube and elsewhere. It's not a cheap knife and the tolerances are pretty damn good. I opened it up to find a caged bearing set on the handle side was torn in two. Fragments from the cage and bearings were running loose in the washer race. No wonder the action was such a disaster.

Took some pictures and posted on the Maintenance thread, looking for advice. I got some very kind thoughtful answers. I took out a ruler, got a sense of what replacement size might work and ordered a set from usaknifemaker.com. To sum this up, the new caged bearings work perfectly - the knife works perfectly, and in fact has exceeded my expectations. And the kicker is, I made it happen - makes the knife truly mine. This is one I won't be selling.

Nice thread, boys. Knife ownership is about, well, ownership. Don't bail too soon. Chances are the designer and manufacturer knew exactly what they were doing when they made your blade.

 

[Hackenslash]

It's good to hear that you're happy with your Gemini, Benzy. I've had the same experience with knives too, but I think Otto and Chazzy have already covered that pretty well.

I think what you experienced was a symptom of the rapid growth that Kizer has had. I've been buying Kizer knives for years now and was one of the original fanboys. I was always pleased with the fit, finish and assembly of every Kizer I bought, even if the knife wasn't perfect for me functionally or aesthetically. About the only gripe I had about my first Kizers were inconsistent detents. Starting this year, things began to change. I started getting Kizers that were hastily assembled or even missing screws...things that a vigorous QC program should be able to catch. The materials and parts of the knives were still excellent, but there was a certain attention to detail lacking in the construction.

I don't like it, but I can understand it. Kizer has had a very aggressive roll out of new knives, rivaling the big boys like Kershaw and Spyderco. I think the new condition of your Gemini is symptomatic of the growing pains that they've experienced. If you consider where they were three years ago to today as regulars on Massdrop and Nutfancy, it's been a wild ride.

I think Kizer might be the first to admit that they may have been overly aggressive. They've already indicated that they plan to slow down for 2017 and focus on fewer knives with better releases. I think this is a good and natural progression for a company that I've enjoyed watching grow.

If you love your Gemini, take a look at the Velox 2. It looks a lot like "Gemini 2", but the action and ergos are surprisingly different. Enjoy that knife!

 

[Wavester]

I wound up keeping my Gemini after positing my initial thoughts on it....nice knife
[video=youtube;-5hZ7vP21vc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5hZ7vP21vc[/video]

I've had my Gemini now for a couple months and feel I've had enough time to form an qualified opinion.

I had been searching for basically a classy frame lock flipper. I wanted a steel lock bar insert, a decent blade steel, rather simply yet sleek titanium scales, and a fit and finish that was good to great. I wanted a knife with good flipping action as well, nothing worse than a flipper knife that doesn't want to flip. So the Gemini seemed like the perfect fit.

Out of the box impressions:
What a let down. The blade is touching the presentation scale side. The blade comes out easy but is so far off centered it rubs. I grab the Torx driver and sure enough, the pivot is just way too loose. I had heard some people could crank it down right but when I did that, the thing wouldn't flip. I adjusted it just till it was smooth but not stuck and it worked well. Not the greatest action, but good enough for the price.

First week impression:
Still not thrilled. The pivot is very picky. A little too tight and it won't open, a little too loose and it off centered. I can tell things are breaking in as when the pivot is snugged down it is getting easier to open. Manageable but still a lot of work to keep it right.

Second week impression:
Better. By now, the pivot has gotten to where I can tighten it down snug and the flipper tab works ok. Still not perfect flipping but acceptable. At this point I use a small amount of thread lock and snug the pivot and let it sit. After a day of drying, I spend a few hours flipping the knife while watching a movie.

First month impressions:
This is the knife I wanted. The flipper is smooth and light and nearly impossible to not flip open fully. Not quite as good flipping as the ZT 0450 but very good. The feel in hand is great, the blade shape works for me, everything has fallen into place. I'm very glad I gave it time. I like the overall shape of the knife better than the 0450 and as such it's become my EDC (until the small Sebenza shows up). For the money, I think this knife fits me better than anything else out there.

I thought I misjudged what the knife would be when it first showed up. I had heard it was better than what I received. A big part of me wanted to quickly send it back and try something else. I also misjudged what the knife would break in to be. It is everything I had read and more. The quality is very very good. I'm not sure what else I could really have asked it to be, especially at this price.

The moral for me was to give things a chance and then when you're frustrated, give them another chance. A little bit of time made this a real winner of a knife.