General Welding Questions

ddavelarsen

ddavelarsen

Joined
Dec 7, 2000
Messages
5,179
The discussion about building Ray Roger's hardness tester has me back to that biggest hole in my shop - no way to weld anything. And fair warning, I don't know how to weld anything. Took a couple days instruction in High School shop 35 years ago and that's been it. Like everything else, I don't have access to an experienced person to inform and train me so I'll be figuring this out on my own in my basement. ;)

So here's what I'd like to learn:

What's the best kind of welding setup for a home shop? Stick, Mig, Tig, O/A? Assume I'm going to be building mostly typical knifemaker tooling.

How much should I expect to spend for your recommendation?

Where's the best place to buy it and all the associated equipment/supplies?

And what would some good self instruction material be?

Anything else I'm too ignorant to know to ask?

I have 220 to my shop, so that's not a limitation. Not being able to weld has really held my tool building back and I think it's time to start getting that resolved. I appreciate any ideas.

Thanks,
 
Dave,
The little LINCOLN wire feed welders are hard to beat. I made my little mini power hammer, a lot of rigs and jigs, too many things to mention.
I bought mine from an individual, but you see them all over the place. Mine was $350. Welds up to "1/4 material. I've used it on much thicker stuff and it works. You just can run it all day long. They have a short duty cycle. They are extremely easy to use and come with a little welding instruction book.
 
Is this what you have in mind Mark? If so, I'm all over it. Looks ready-made for someone like me. :D And it's 120V too, which makes it more portable for me since the 220V is only available at a couple of places in my house.

Thanks,
 
Mark,
do they have these types in 110? What amps does the 220 pull?

Also, I have an O/A set. is it worth wild for me tyo learn to weld with what I have or look for a buzz box arc welder? I am thinking that the answer is yes but the only thing I have used to weld with is the wirefeed migs and tigs on aluminum. How much mmore dificult is it just using O/A set up?

Hey Mark, if you are welding larger steel just preheat that material with the oxy/aced. It will make welding larger steel easier for the wirefeed.
 
Maybe I'll weld up a quench tank stand that allows my side burner on my grill to ride underneath it. I'll try to use what I have and see how it goes. Dave, what are you planning on building?
 
I'm no expert by any means but I can weld as good or better than your average person who didn't go to school for it. A friend who's certified got me started and I'll tell you the 2 things he told me were most important, and I totally agree with him.

1. Get Comfortable. You have to be totally relaxed. Its takes some prectice cause the first time you strike an arc (especially on a stick welder) your probably gonna jump out of your skin. You won't be able to weld very well until you can just sit there relaxed and watch the weld pool.
2. Learn what a good weld looks like as its being formed. This is tough without someone there to show you. But it really won't click for you until you know what to look for. I didn't really get it until I ran a TIG for the first time. Its a little easier to see with a torch also. Once you learn how to watch the weld pool and control your bead and penetration its just a matter of technicalities you can pull out of a book. What rod/wire, is preheat needed, is normalizing needed etc. All of that is important, but you have to learn what your looking for while the welder is running first.

I'd suggest you get a bunch of junk steel and just go crazy running beads on it when you start. Grind them back, cut them in half. Study what you get, until it looks right cold. Then remember how it looked as it was forming and try to do it again.

As far as what welder to get, I've gotten pretty fond of my stick welder, but I've got a lot of practice with it now. A MIG is a lot easier to start on as you don't have to deal with stuck rods, or any of that mess. I think its a little harder to see the weld pool since your hand peice is always right down against the work though. You'll want a gas shield kit for it too, and a true MIG/GMAW welder. I've been told that flux core makes for a very porous weld when you try to do heavier stuff, I've never run one personally but I've seen others use them and they didn't impress me.

Also I'd recommend you spend the $100 on an automatic shield. Flip up shields will drive you nuts, and possible leave you blind cause you won't get it down in time. I don't know how anyone can weld with the damn things. An auto shield makes things SOOO much easier. You can just get comfortable and start welding, and you can always see what your doing.
 
I have had a Miller 130 wire feed, 115 volt, for a couple of years. The new ones now are Miller 135. Do yourself a favor and get one with CO2/Argon,gas. Big difference in gas and flux core. Best $700 I have spent in a while. I also got a "cheater" lens and an auto darkening lens. These two items are nice also.
 
In my shop I have Mig, Gas, Stick and Tig welders and they are used in that order. My 135 Miller Mig is used with gas shield to fix flaws in castings and I have built several trailers with it -- I just love it -- it's so easy to use. Best thing for me is that the book says I can run it with a 100 foot 10 ga cord on a 20 amp 120 volt circuit.
Next in usefullness is my A/O torch which, with the aid of a strong magnet, I use mostly for heat treating.

I learned to stick weld when I was a young kid and worked as a welder for years but I just can't say how happy I am with my little Mig welder. It looks so easy to my Daughter in law that she wants to use it on some of her art projects.
 
Do yourself a favor and spend the extra bucks for one that will use bottled gas as a shield. Flux cored wire doesn't work quite as well.

For most projects a 75/25 (75% CO2 and 25% Argon) mix works great and is not all that expensive. Most of these smaller MIGs can run .023 and .030 wire and do you a beautiful job. Nice thing is, there is no flux to have to chip off when you are finished.

Also, if practical, get one wired for 220. (Increased duty cycle)

Forgot to add.............The learning curve is really short with a MIG. Practice with amp settings and wire speed until you get a good weld. Listen for a sound like "bacon frying", then you will know you are close.
 
I have the millermatic 135. Best one made for the size. The gas is nice, but you can not have any type of a breeze blowing! Plus the Millermatic has a variable heat and feed settings, where the others do not. Just a few preset settings. But the Millermatic is a bit more money. The thicker the metal, the easier to weld.
GARY
 
Tig is by far the best way to go if you are talking about knife work and stainless steel . Clean, no splatter or flux to worry about. You can weld a guard to a knife and leave a very smooth appearance with a minimum of cleanup work and much stronger than solder ever though of being. A good stainless tig weld will be as strong as the knife itself.
Stick 7018, 6010 is best for welding heavier carbon iron, angle, channel etc.
Mig orginally was designed for long continuous feeds on power plant boilers etc. but is getting popular with home owners.
Unfortunately the Tig setups are also the most expensive to purchase.
It really depends on what type of job you intend to do. Your best bet is go to a dedicated welding supply house in your area and tell them what you intend to do.
If you are just looking for a method of joining two pieces of metal the Stick or Mig machine would be best, with Tig for small objects and almost all stainless steel applications.
Many junior colleges offer classes that could get you started. Being a former Pipefitter welder with many years of welding on nuclear power plants, you may give the UA Pipefitters Local Union a call and see if they might let you weld in their facility for a small fee with one of their instructors.
Learning to put a nice smooth Tig weld on stainless steel takes a lot of supervised practice and patience.
Just my $00.2 worth.
 
I would go to a local welding store and they take trade in so you can get a used machine and save money i would get 220 powered machine 175 amp machine or higher dont get to small then you will want bigger
Sam Fogler
 
Mark's has the right idea Dave. I've got a little Lincoln and I'd be lost without it. I use the flux core wire, without gas with no problems. It just takes a little practice. I worked in a welding shop for a few years when I was younger :rolleyes: and trust me, MIG welding is easy. If you need any help, just give me a yell.
 
Dave

I've never welded either but want to learn someday, when I get done working on the house. I have noticed evening classes at local colleges and highschools that were not very expensive. That may be a good way to get you started with a minimum of frustration and reinventing of the wheel.

Phil
 
That's a ton of excellent information, thank you very much! Sounds like the little Lincoln MIG is gonna be the way to go. Already it's up to $300 from $120 this morning. :D I'll keep my eye on it for a couple days while I shop around locally and see if I can beat the price. If not, I'll make an appropriate bid. May take a couple of tries to get one but I'll figure out what I should pay, and pay it.

Brian, what got me thinking about this today was the discussion of Ray Rogers' home built hardness tester. But there have been a myriad of things over the last few years that I did not build, or built poorly, because I don't have a welder. I've looked at many at HF and Hope Depot/Lowes but since I don't know what I'm looking for or how much it should cost, I haven't bought anything.

This will help as I go checking stuff out this weekend. The idea to look at a local welding shop for trade ins is a good one, I'll be sure to make that part of my day.

I'm not afraid to take a shot at anything, but I'd prefer to have some basis before I start just to reduce the learning curve. I made several knives before I found this place; they were okay but I was learning much slower and my standards were not what they should have been, until I came here and started learning from people who know what they're doing.

One thing about Shop Talk is that no matter what you're trying to learn or make, someone knows all the things to look out for and do to shorten the satisfaction curve. The subscription rate is paltry compared to the value I reap from all the great help you folks hand out.

Thanks once again, to everyone.
 
Dave,
Not to be funny but mig welding is like a hot glue gun for steel. You can do it easy brother.
 
I am going to go against the crowd here...

I went through the same decision process about six years ago. I decided to get an O/A torch rig, and I think it was a good choice.

Torch, to me, gives you the most bang for your buck. (No pun) You can weld, heat, cut, braze and solder with an O/A set. It's definitely not the fastest for pure fabrication, and if that's all you want to do, buy a mig. The versatility, though, outweighs the speed disadvantage in my mind.

After that, I bought a stick welder, then sold it and bought a mig. Sold the mig to buy a tig, (which will also do stick) which I LOVE. I still use the torch a LOT, though - mostly for heating (bend something, or differential HT-ing) but I still weld with it now and then to make sure I don't forget how. I have a Smith "Little Torch" which is the cat's ass for soldering. Little, tiny HOT flame right where you need it. Every once in a while I miss the mig, but there is not a welding job that can't be done with tig, stick or torch.

If you learn to weld with a torch, all the other processes will fall into place readily. If you learn with mig, then initially you are going to make a lot of beautiful welds that won't hold. It's hard to learn what to watch for in a puddle without a torch-welding point of reference. It can be done, but you have to WATCH THE PUDDLE. The only way to weld to pieces together, as opposed to globbing a weld bead on top of the joint, is to melt the base metal. You need to control the puddle and put it and the filler where they need to be, when they need to be there. A lot of guys refer to a mig as a hot glue gun for metal, and it is to a point. But there's a lot more to it than "point and shoot."

I would cry if I had to give up my tig, but I'd be lost without the torch.

My $0.02.
Dave

Edited to add:

I should add that I first learned to weld in junior high shop class (do they still have those?) a million or so years ago, using an OA torch. This did influence my decision a bit. I think it would have been the right decision even if I hadn't learned that way, though.
 
Thanks Dave, that is good stuff. To be honest, I thought about all your points with the O/A, and I think I'll end up with one eventually for all those reasons. I remember the welding days is high school shop class though, and I really sucked welding with the torch. I wasn't too whippy cutting with it either. But I do have a few leaf springs I want to cut up and other stuff like that so I expect I'm going to end up with one in the next couple of years. For my immediate things though, I think the Mig is gonna be it.

Your point about watching the puddle is well taken! My memory isn't the greatest but I do recall what it looked like when I was trying to weld 35 years ago, and what the movies showed it was supposed to look like... :D Clearly practice is going to be in order for me before I start trying to do anything that my safety will rely on. And pretty much all the tools a knifemaker might build have safety issues.

I'm going out to HF tomorrow to look at sandblast cabinets and will check out what they have.
 
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