Gerber 420HC vs. 9Cr19MoV

2

2ndunamended

Joined
Jul 30, 2016
Messages
47
I'm sure this has been beaten to death somewhere, either in this forum or others- I did a search here but didn't find anything. Steel comparisons are often like caliber comparisons I realize.

Nonetheless, in comparing the Gerber LMF & StrongArm vs. the Bear Grylls Ultimate Pro, the steel difference is 420HC vs. 9Cr19MoV (for the BG). Aesthetics and opinions of BG aside, what are the main advantages of 420HC over the 9Cr19MoV? Or are there any? The BG knife is solid; nicely balanced and has a few utility perks (that I can live with or without). Weight differences also aside, the LMF is equally or more so fantastic; I haven't handled the StrongArm.

What is going to be the best for hard use in the woods, for all around duty (not including food prep)?

If you wish, please feel free to offer your next best comparison knife within the same price range, but I'm most specifically interested in your expertise on the aforementioned steels.
 
2ndunamended said:
what are the main advantages of 420HC over the 9Cr19MoV?
Click to expand...

Maybe ease of sharpening. You can sharpen 420HC on natural stones, coffee cups, the underside of toilet tank lids (Some fella claimed he did that while on a business trip.)

9Cr19MoV will require a synthetic stone to sharpen. Aluminum oxide, diamond, or the like.

If you are likely to be out for an extended period of time, such as an emergency, and you won't have sharpening gear handy, you might want 420HC.

In pretty much all other respects, the 420HC won't hold a candle to the 9Cr19MoV
 
knarfeng said:
Maybe ease of sharpening. You can sharpen 420HC on natural stones, coffee cups, the underside of toilet tank lids (Some fella claimed he did that while on a business trip.)

9Cr19MoV will require a synthetic stone to sharpen. Aluminum oxide, diamond, or the like.

If you are likely to be out for an extended period of time, such as an emergency, and you won't have sharpening gear handy, you might want 420HC.

In pretty much all other respects, the 420HC won't hold a candle to the 9Cr19MoV
Click to expand...

Thank you Frank. So provided I carry the appropriate sharpening apparatus, would it be accurate to say that the 9Cr19MoV would be superior in terms of corrosion resistance, edge retention, and overall strength?
 
knarfeng said:
Maybe ease of sharpening. You can sharpen 420HC on natural stones, coffee cups, the underside of toilet tank lids (Some fella claimed he did that while on a business trip.)

9Cr19MoV will require a synthetic stone to sharpen. Aluminum oxide, diamond, or the like.

If you are likely to be out for an extended period of time, such as an emergency, and you won't have sharpening gear handy, you might want 420HC.

In pretty much all other respects, the 420HC won't hold a candle to the 9Cr19MoV
Click to expand...
What do you mean "claimed"? You don't believe me? And how would you like it if I started calling you "some moderator?"

The underside of the LID of a toilet tank is normally completely clean, and can function as a coarse ceramic stone. Bottom of a ceramic coffee cup as a finsher, then strop on the phone book. A travelin' man has to improvise. It was a SAK Alox Electrician I had bought just for the trip and didn't have time to sharpen it before I left.
 
i just always make sure to get the knives that have the black coated blades. i was told by a man much wiser than i at the sporting goods store that the black coated blades held a better edge because the chemicals in the mixture change the molecules in the steel and make it hold a edge better. it made a lot of sense when he was saying to me about it. i never knew that but since i learned that ive only carried black coated blades and i think i can tell a difference in edge ability. takes a little longer to sharpen though, thats the only down side. so whichever steel you go with just make sure to get a coated blade. good luck with your decision pal! hope i could be of some help. :)
 
Ha! Sorry. Was that you who posted about that? I remembered the story, not who told it.

would it be accurate to say that the 9Cr19MoV would be superior in terms of corrosion resistance, edge retention, and overall strength?
Click to expand...

Strength, being related to "hardness", is dependent on heat treat. So that one might vary depending on the maker. But the 9Cr19MoV is likely to be heat treated to a higher hardness than Gerber 420HC. Higher hardness is also higher strength.

Not sure on the absolute corrosion resistance, but I wouldn't consider corrosion an issue unless you are going to use the blade in saltwater (in which case I'd look at another alloy entirely). I've never had a stainless steel blade have corrosion issues, and I live near the beach.

At equal hardness, 9Cr19MoV will hold an edge significantly longer than 420HC.
 
Don Joe said:
i just always make sure to get the knives that have the black coated blades. i was told by a man much wiser than i at the sporting goods store that the black coated blades held a better edge because the chemicals in the mixture change the molecules in the steel and make it hold a edge better. it made a lot of sense when he was saying to me about it. i never knew that but since i learned that ive only carried black coated blades and i think i can tell a difference in edge ability. takes a little longer to sharpen though, thats the only down side. so whichever steel you go with just make sure to get a coated blade. good luck with your decision pal! hope i could be of some help. :)
Click to expand...

I wish that was True Don Joe

but black coatings do nothing for the actual edge

You should just get a black coating because they look cool :)
 
Don, I think maybe you are talking about diamond-like carbon (DLC) coatings. They are wear resistant and do interact with the substrate (steel) to form a carbide layer that the upper layers of the DLC coating can adhere to, but in general use on a knife it is just for looks or reducing reflections on the blade. Compared to just painted on coatings, DLC coatings are very wear resistant so they do have that advantage. But the cutting edge doesn't have the DLC on it, that's just the underlying steel.
 
Lots of great info so far- I really appreciate it!

I've been trying to talk myself out of the "commercial" Bear Grylls knife (even though it's sitting in front of me, given at a gift price), but it is a dang good value with lots of solid specs. I'm also at the point where I go with a quality/value quotient, and don't much care how something looks. Also, in terms of the 3 compared knives in my original post, one advantage for me personally is the pommel "hammer" on the BG knife, something I know I will use frequently.

I figure as long as I'm not trying to "cross fit survive" like BG does in his shows, his knife would serve me well!
 
I actually have a BG Ultimate, and dispite the bad rep Gerber has gotten in recent years, it's a fairly good value.

I could care less about the BG name, as it's just a marketing gimmick. But it's held up well as a basic camp knife for two years now (it just lives in my camp bag). Blade works well enough for general use around camp - hacking light brush, whittling hot dog sticks, chopping at small wood, cutting cord, stirring the fire...

Haven't used the pommel striker, as I have proper hammers in the camp bag, but I have used the fire steel to start a blaze once or twice, and the sharpener is ok for putting a quick edge back on the blade. But these are all really gimmicks to sell a "survival" knife. Though the bright orange is nice for finding the knife quickly if you set it down, or drop it in the bush somewhere.

Sheath kinda sucks. It holds well, and the knife fits in left or right handed, but the nylon is cut too square and high at the top, so it rubs against the body annoyingly, and it tends to get in the way in general when wearing it. I've worn other knives this size, without them always getting in the way.

Overal, you could do much worse for $50-60. As long as you expect a $50-$60 knife, and not a $100+ one.
 
jaseman said:
I actually have a BG Ultimate, and dispite the bad rep Gerber has gotten in recent years, it's a fairly good value.


Sheath kinda sucks. It holds well, and the knife fits in left or right handed, but the nylon is cut too square and high at the top, so it rubs against the body annoyingly, and it tends to get in the way in general when wearing it. I've worn other knives this size, without them always getting in the way.

Overal, you could do much worse for $50-60. As long as you expect a $50-$60 knife, and not a $100+ one.
Click to expand...

Thank you- I agree that the sheath cut is strange, and not really fit for belt wear. I think I'll rig a carabiner to the sheath so I can carry it less obtrusively.
 
My 2 cents.

Considering both were properly ht'd
420hc would be tougher and more corrosion resistant

9cr18mov will hold an edge much longer. (And still be pretty darn resistant to corrosion).

That said, the BG line is made in China and has had some issues with QC and heat treatments. Quite a few reports of duds if you will...

The Strong Arm is made in the USA, and reportedly better QC, less issues...
 
For $60 get a Becker.

I doubt most people would notice a large difference between 420HC and 9CR. Heat treat and geometry will most likely cause a larger difference than the alloy.
 
edited:
Never mind I forgot you are anti-carbide.

Not going to start that one.
 
knarfeng said:
edited:
Never mind I forgot you are anti-carbide.

Not going to start that one.
Click to expand...

I remember the exploding Bear Grylls knife videos when that model came out. Supposedly there were improvements, but that's typical Gerber quality. For a fixed blade in the price range the OP asked about a Becker is better than the Gerbers. If the OP wanted to get a high end custom with no price restriction I wouldn't have mentioned Beckers. If a company is offering a knife with good geometry and properly heat treated CPM-M4 or 3V in the sub $80 price range I'd love to buy one. Sure, I could have suggested a Queen hunter in D2 for around the same price as one of the Gerbers, but the Queen hunter I bought came hilariously thick and required a major reprofiling before it was usable. The Beckers I own didn't require any reprofiling.

For the record I'm not anti-carbide, I'm anti-Gerber. If the OP had asked about a Buck fixed blade in 420HC I would have said to go with that. The 9Cr and 8Cr in my Enlans, SRMs and Kershaws haven't performed noticeably differently than the 420HC in my Buck 110. They sharpen more or less the same on ceramic stones. I don't notice any difference in corrosion resistance.
 
I'm in an overall quandary regarding these mid-size, mid-price "survival" knives. Since I generally carry something like my Tops DART in the woods, I could probably skip over a Gerber/Becker in the range discussed above, and simply carry my Morakniv Garberg. It's tough as hell, and I think it's a legitimate, lightweight secondary carry. The argument against it would be the price, but I didn't pay full retail so it's viable.

Of course, the Gerbers, Beckers, etc... make more sense if I'm only carrying one knife for shorter hikes.
 
I actually own both of these blades, and i know gerber doesn't have the best rep these days nor does anything with the BG logo, but there isnt much bad i can say about the ultimate pro its damn solid, i tortured this blade for a straight year and haven't been able to break it yet. But if i had to pick one of the 2 it would defiantly be the strongarm, i prefer U.S. made items for start, and it has held up to everything i put it through, though i have not "tortured" it yet, plus the sheath is way more versatile, and easy to customize. i easily added everything to it that the BG has (firesteel, cordage, sharpener) with no problem. With that said, i love both but more prefer the strongarm, and i keep the BG in car as an emergency backup blade in the event of an shtf scenario. So i give the BG 4 out of 5, and the strongarm 5 out of 5 regaurdless of gerber's marketing ploy on the BG.
 
I am still using and carrying an old Gerber EZ out I bought around 1992. It was on the job with me daily for many years and heavily used but never abused. The 420 steel has never let me down and is easy to resharpen. I never even knew what kind of steel it was for many years. It has been the best knife for the money I have ever carried.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top