Getting Past the Factory Edge and Sharpening in General

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Apr 3, 2006
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BK9Grinder_zpsy129vhzu.jpg


Heh. Just joking. I was holding a bit of scrap steel under the '9 :)

In another thread a couple of folks indicated that a knife might have a better edge once the factory edge has been ground away. I hadn't really contemplated that before.

I can think of two reasons why this might be. 1.. If a knife was pretty much sharpened before it was heat treated, then maybe the thin edge lost some carbon in the process. With less carbon the edge mightn't be as hard. 2. .. If a factory edge is particularly toothy, then the grind lines might initiate chipping if great stress is applied.

So what are other folks' thoughts and experience with this idea?


I know that the topic of sharpening has been discussed too much already. Nevertheless, I thought I'd contribute some thoughts.

I will not hesitate to use an electric bench grinder or a disk grinder on a knife blade if there is a lot of metal to be moved. Naturally I try to go easy so as not to overheat the edge, and I keep a bucket of water nearby so I can dunk the blade in periodically to keep it cool. I only take light cuts while keeping the blade moving. As a metalworker I've sharpened cold chisels, drills, center punches and other cutting tools many times on a high speed grinder. The edge would have to reach a temperature of 400 F before changes started to happen. Mind you, it doesn't take long for a small area to reach this temperature so care is needed. Maybe there are better ways to re-shape a blade, but I've never been aware of having ruined the temper unless I've seen colour changes on the steel.

It seems to be widely accepted that the best way to sharpen a knife on a whetstone is to stroke the blade forward over the stone. I use this method sometimes when I have a nice flat stone, but over the years I have come to prefer dragging the edge over the stone. Not every stone is particularly flat, and I figure it is better to drag the blade over a lump rather than push into it. Perhaps I get more of a feather this way with some blades, but a few light strokes and maybe the use of a steel or finer stone seems to get rid of it.

My Dad - who was an engineer, hunter, fisherman and cook - used knives a lot, although curiously he often bothered me by not having one on his person. He used to sharpen on a stone with a circular motion. His knives were plenty sharp enough. I never remember seeing him use a sharpening steel.

Recently I've been getting good results dragging my edges over abrasive paper. I have a roll of fine paper I got from a yard sale, and it is great. I sometimes carry a strip of this paper for sharpening when I'm out on the hillside. It is light, and it doesn't have sharp edges to push through my pocket or my pack.

At time I obsess over having to get a shaving edge... and I have found this easy to achieve with just a medium stone followed by a few strokes on a steel. But I don't think I've ever had a knife as sharp as some of the internet descriptions (dang... cutting through hair above my skin ! How do you get it that sharp?). In day to day use though, I've found that a blade doesn't have to shave to perform well enough. If it feels sharp to my thumb... and I can't see the edge in bright light...and if it does the required job without too much effort, then I'm happy. Sometimes I will test the blade by dragging it over my thumbnail. If it feels like it is 'catching' the nail, all is well.

I have created shaving edges dragging over a stone (finishing with very light strokes), and by dragging over fine abrasive paper.

As far as edges go, I probably grind to a sharper angle than some folks might recommend. I also like the idea of the convex edge, but I don't really go out of my way to create one... I just figure that my hand-held sharpening technique will be creating a slight convex automatically whether I like it or not.

The stone in the middle under the BK2 is a cheap one I got from a 'two dollar' shop. It works well enough. The stone laying next to the steel is a natural Arkansas and it is a really good one. Under the Arkansas stone is a bit of inexpensive 'non-slip' matting. I find it is really good to use under a stone on the kitchen bench. I don't scratch the bench, and the stone doesn't slide around. I glued the cheap ceramic stick into a 'natural' handle. I don't really know what to think about ceramic sticks yet. (I guess many of you will know that unglazed fired ceramic pottery is good for sharpening. Often the base rim of a plate or bowl wont be glazed, so it is ideal for the job).

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Now that I'm married to the BK9, when I see that photo of the BK2 I think 'dang that knife is small'.
 
That first pic made me cringe and then I scrolled down, yeah, you got me, I should have known better though.

My understanding is the knife is ground close to what the final edge would be then heat treated and the heat treat can cause the thinned edge to get slightly too much heat. Once the knife has been sharpened a couple of times that area is gone and the proper heat treated steel has now been sharpened. I'm not a metallurgist, so don't quote me, I'm sure someone will be along with an in-depth explanation.

Stones and sandpaper are simple, easy, inexpensive way to maintain and edge. I use a WSKO with blade grinder but it requires power, I have used sandpaper and a strop in the woods though.
 
Edge goes on last.
Anyone who does otherwise is either crazy or wants an OSHA lawsuit, or both.
Also, that's how you get a shiny edge on a painted blade.

Usually SOME finish work happens after heat-treat which removes most of the softened surface layer that occurs during heat-treat. Depending on how the blade is heat-treated, surface de-carb/softening may be dramatically minimized, reducing the need for post-heat finishing.

Grinding the edge with a machine can overheat the very thin material beyond the tempering temperature, softening it more than the rest of the blade. Grinding the edge with a coarse abrasive reduces this possibility (faster, less contact, less heat), but leaves you with a crude, toothy edge. This is pretty normal in factory edges.

Sharpening by hand will refine the surfaces of the edge, re-define the apex to a finer profile, and if you are aggressive enough, remove a few hundred microns of potentially softer steel.

Even if the steel is in perfect condition at the factory edge, you will almost always experience an improvement with a skilled hand-sharpening.
 
Grinding the edge with a machine can overheat the very thin material beyond the tempering temperature, softening it more than the rest of the blade.

This is my theory as well. Hand sharpen the edge a few times and you remove some of this potentially softer material.
 
This is my theory as well. Hand sharpen the edge a few times and you remove some of this potentially softer material.

Thing is... you usually see some heat color on the surface when that happens, though I suppose it could happen at the very edge where things are very thin.
 
I agree with the above posts and would add that hand sharpening or even KOWS sharpening after purchase can customize the edge for a particular owner/user's tastes. An example of that is taking the time to convex the edge on a BK4 for example.

I'm typically not looking to skice phone book pages or toilet paper; I prefer a toothier edge and a fatter convex for field use - at least on some of my knives.
 
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I'm just a beginner Hermit Dave. I'll try your worthy suggestions next time I'm sharpening something.

Welcome Lee. I'd say that unless you are experienced at using an electric grinder, don't use it to sharpen a knife. If a blade needs to be reshaped.... or if the edge is seriously worn or damaged, then maybe a grinder can be used slowly and carefully to make the blade more useable. But great care has to be taken not to overheat the blade and to not let the grindstone 'grab' the blade and chew a great hunk out of it and possibly cause injury.

Slowly and carefully is the best way to approach sharpening. So the hone stone and sandpaper options are probably the way to go.

If you can get someone experienced to show you how they sharpen their knives, you could be off to a good start.

Let us know how you get on... and of course it would be nice to see a picture of whatever knives you are sharpening.
 
Do not use a grinder unless you are an expert or hate knives.

Go to the hardware store and get a dual-grit diamond 'stone' - the 6" model. It will last forever.
Color the edge bevel with a sharpie, and practice on something crappy.
 
And get a decent one...
I found out the hard way that the Harbor Freight 4 sided "diamond" block was all kinds of warped and just plain crappy all together...
 
The picture Coote jokingly posted, is the LAST thing you want to use to sharpen a knife. A variable speed belt sander, slowed way down, would be the way to go. Even then, you should dip the blade in water after every pass.

That said, hand sharpening is always best.
 
I bought a Ken Onion Work Sharp. If anyone has a good tutorial please post up a link.
 
okay I will try the diamond stone I am going to lowes and will look for it

Lee

You ever free sharpened before? I recommend an angle guide of sorts search for knife sharpening angle guide and a ton will come up

Also the washboard system is supposed to help beginners might check that out as well
 
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