Getting started on freehand. What to get first?

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c7m2p3

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I have an overabundance of sharpening gizmos including a diamond KME set, Worksharp grinder with the BGA, Sharpmaker, Lansky, and Worksharp diamond plate guided system. However, I have been considering getting into freehand sharpening as a lark around the holidays. Obviously I have no real 'need' as I have plenty of equipment to put an edge on knives from cheap kitchen knives to M4 and M390 but i like the idea of breaking out the bench stones to throw and edge back on something.

I probably should be able to pick up a basic stone holder from a hardware store relatively easily but wanted to get some takes here on some places to start stone wise. I was thinking looking at the Baryonx American Mutt (currently out of stock unfortunately on their site) or the Manticore stone as an ultra course starter that might take care of 90% of the work and then being able to strop off the burr. Are there any decent course ceramics out there that wont break the bank? I know you get a lot of bang for your buck out of the American Mutt and the Manticore but I have no experience with oil stones and the ease of cleaning ceramic seems advantageous.
 
The American Mutt and Manticore are ceramic stones.

Are you meaning ceramic water stones?
 
Eli Chaps said:
The American Mutt and Manticore are ceramic stones.

Are you meaning ceramic water stones?
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Yes I should have been more specific. While they are ceramic they are oil stones. Im not opposed to oil stones but the convenience of using something like the ceramic rods on the Sharpmaker dry or with a tad of water is far less messy than breaking out tupperware to soak a stone in oil just to sharpen up some kitchen knives. I suppose the natural solution would be to go diamond and be done with it but wanted to pull on some knowledge from the forum here.
 
c7m2p3 said:
Yes I should have been more specific. While they are ceramic they are oil stones. Im not opposed to oil stones but the convenience of using something like the ceramic rods on the Sharpmaker dry or with a tad of water is far less messy than breaking out tupperware to soak a stone in oil just to sharpen up some kitchen knives. I suppose the natural solution would be to go diamond and be done with it but wanted to pull on some knowledge from the forum here.
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Understood, just wanted to make sure we're all talking the same language. :)

Scroll down the page a bit and you'll find a recent thread about stones for a noob or some such. There were some good suggestions in that. I have a thread in there titled "Why Water Stones" that folks also provided some excellent information.

It sounds like you want "splash and go" stones. I went with the Shapton Glass line but you for sure have options. You will need to flatten them and that can be done on sandpaper if you really want to go cheap but I just opted to get a CKTG 140 diamond plate. We'll see how long it lasts but it didn't break the bank.

No matter what you decide, the Mantiore is an outstanding stone to start with and can be used with water or oil.
 
Oh, I should also mention that the Ultra Sharp diamond stones are a good value as well. Once you get above 400-600 grit, those high vanadium stones will need diamond. But of course that depends on if you want to go above that.
 
Eli Chaps said:
Understood, just wanted to make sure we're all talking the same language. :)

Scroll down the page a bit and you'll find a recent thread about stones for a noob or some such. There were some good suggestions in that. I have a thread in there titled "Why Water Stones" that folks also provided some excellent information.

It sounds like you want "splash and go" stones. I went with the Shapton Glass line but you for sure have options. You will need to flatten them and that can be done on sandpaper if you really want to go cheap but I just opted to get a CKTG 140 diamond plate. We'll see how long it lasts but it didn't break the bank.

No matter what you decide, the Mantiore is an outstanding stone to start with and can be used with water or oil.
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Maybe I will just go ahead and put the manticore on order then. Even if it clogs up faster with water I have a good stock of barkeepers friend that ive used to clean up my sharpmaker rods for years. Assuming that works the same here the manticore should last years. Thanks!
 
c7m2p3 said:
Yes I should have been more specific. While they are ceramic they are oil stones. Im not opposed to oil stones but the convenience of using something like the ceramic rods on the Sharpmaker dry or with a tad of water is far less messy than breaking out tupperware to soak a stone in oil just to sharpen up some kitchen knives. I suppose the natural solution would be to go diamond and be done with it but wanted to pull on some knowledge from the forum here.
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The Manticore and Arctic Fox stones both work well with water. Honestly cannot imagine using the Arctic Fox with oil.

A Norton combination Crystalon stone used with mineral oil also a good stone to learn on.

The first or second thing you should get are some very cheap knives to practice on, don't learn on your good stuff.
 
Eli Chaps said:
Oh, I should also mention that the Ultra Sharp diamond stones are a good value as well. Once you get above 400-600 grit, those high vanadium stones will need diamond. But of course that depends on if you want to go above that.
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That's a good choice too. The combination plate is a good value. The coarse side could stand to be more coarse, but a good choice overall.
 
Yes so for the most part my current plan is to stick with the KME for high Vanadium steel pocket knives like 20CV, M390, M4, Elmax, etc. Mostly my interest initially for getting into freehanding would be not only on skill building, but something more convenient for kitchen knives and larger fixed blade knives. Kitchen knives are usually too big for the KME and frankly the steel isnt good enough to justify diamond hones on a fixed system.

So my initial thought was that getting an extra course like the American Mutt/Manticore would make short work of some of the softer kitchen knife steels, and leave a generally toothy edge after deburring. Maybe a combination 400/1000 would be more useful for kitchen knives and fixed blades?
 
I have a KME as well and just like you, it was my fall back for those upper steels as I started building out my bench stone choices. Absolutely nothing wrong with that plan.
 
c7m2p3 said:
So my initial thought was that getting an extra course like the American Mutt/Manticore would make short work of some of the softer kitchen knife steels, and leave a generally toothy edge after deburring. Maybe a combination 400/1000 would be more useful for kitchen knives and fixed blades?
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I like toothy edges and have been finishing around 325 grit on all my knives, which include medium to large fixed blades, folders, and kitchen knives. I've read that some people go lower, even to 120, which I plan to experiment with. I am a minimalist type and, if ~120 or ~220 grit works well to finish with, it would be cool to only need that and the Manticore for all my freehand sharpening and reprofiling.
 
I went ahead and got the arctic fox and Manticore on order along with a basic stone holder. Hoping that the combination of both should give me a solid base to learn and work off of without breaking the bank given all the other systems I have lying around. Probably will give it a run on some old beaten up soft kitchen knifes first as a test. I read elsewhere here that when getting the Manticore it is advised to score up the face of the stone with the point of a nail to expose some of the grit that was smoothed over from the molding process. Anyone have any experience with that?
 
I've used DMTs for decades, currently the 10" fine/extra fine double-sided one and an Extra Coarse 220 grit. Plus recently I picked up a DMT DuoBase holder, well worth the money. Those and an angle guide for when I need to re-establish a bevel have served me very well.
 
HeavyHanded said:
A Norton combination Crystalon stone used with mineral oil also a good stone to learn on.
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This is so true imho. So many people forget or jump over these stones to get something "better." Best $25 I think you can spend on stones. I've got
many stones, just got the Spyderco Medium, 2x8, which I really like. Have DMT and water stones and many others. The Norton Crystalon or India continue to impress me, great feedback when sharpening too, which I love. Have a Shapton Glass 1000 that feels like glass, can't tell what the heck I'm doing on it. Have fun.
 
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