Hello I’m looking to make some custom kitchen knives. I am a absolute beginner trying to set up a small work place in my open air loft. Due to noise and air pollution I can not use mechanized grinding.so I am thinking files and vises. My question is first is this even plausible, second types and brands of files recommended and third what type of stainless steel would be best for easy stock removal with hand tool and still have good performance?
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Getting started
- Thread starter Mtkhill
- Start date
Welcome to the forum! The first kitchen knife I made was a santoku and I made it without a grinder using files before heat treating and then a diamond plate and sandpaper after. To be honest with you, it was not a great knife, the edge was way too thick. The problem is that you need to leave the edge somewhat thick for heat treating, which leaves a lot of material removal to be done on hardened steel. This is a lot of work for a kitchen knife, because it needs to be very thin to cut well, and because kitchen knives typically have a pretty large blade. While it is certainly possible to thin it out without a grinder, I quickly realized it was not going to be fun for me, and I would not be able to get the results I was looking for without a grinder. All that said, the santoku I made was a functioning knife that cut reasonably well, so I guess it is somewhat plausible to make kitchen knives with hand tools only. As far as files, I have had no issues with Nicholson files from the hardware store. I have some Pferd files that work well also, and some Atoma diamond plates which are great. When I started knife making, I made a filing jig similar to the one shown in the video below.
Thank you for the reply. Would having a file that is harder than the knife make much difference ? Also how thin can I file the blade before I send it of to be heat treated?
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2018
- Messages
- 463
I've never worked with stainless steel, so I can't speak to the second question.
As to the first, a good file will be harder than a tempered blade, but you will shred the teeth of the file as you slowly work down the blade. Unfortunately, hand work is almost never fast. I would recommend edm stones for hand finishing hardened steel. You want soft stones to avoid gouging. From Falcon Tool, you want N grade stones. From Congress Tool, I like the diestar stones so far. The soft stones break down fast so you might order more to keep on hand.
As to the first, a good file will be harder than a tempered blade, but you will shred the teeth of the file as you slowly work down the blade. Unfortunately, hand work is almost never fast. I would recommend edm stones for hand finishing hardened steel. You want soft stones to avoid gouging. From Falcon Tool, you want N grade stones. From Congress Tool, I like the diestar stones so far. The soft stones break down fast so you might order more to keep on hand.
I don't think regular files will work. There are diamond files, but I have never worked with them.
I now grind everything after heat treating, but on the few knives I've ground before heat treating, I took the edge down to around 0.02". I think you can go a bit thinner on stainless, but check with the heat treating service you plan to use to make sure.
Hengelo_77
Basic Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 6,225
If you outsource HT you can go thin pre HT.
Pre HT normal files will work. Look up draw filing.
RWL34 = CPM154 is a good stainless that you can file.
Do you have a balcony? That may be a good place to do the dusty stuff
Pre HT normal files will work. Look up draw filing.
RWL34 = CPM154 is a good stainless that you can file.
Do you have a balcony? That may be a good place to do the dusty stuff
Once again thank you, you have given me a lot to think about
When you get to the handle shaping stage, that is when airborn dust will get bad. The metal work can be done wet with WD40, simple green or windex and that will keep the metal swarf in a slurry rather than in the air. Still messy...
There aren't many good options for handle work. I would use a saw rasp to get it roughed to shape, then sandpaper. The saw rasp should be ok as far as airborn dust, but sanding will make a ton of fine dust. I don't know if there are any materials you can sand wet. Maybe stabilized woods and micarta/G10?
You could also try a vacuum for dust extraction.
There aren't many good options for handle work. I would use a saw rasp to get it roughed to shape, then sandpaper. The saw rasp should be ok as far as airborn dust, but sanding will make a ton of fine dust. I don't know if there are any materials you can sand wet. Maybe stabilized woods and micarta/G10?
You could also try a vacuum for dust extraction.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 7,310
If you buy from
Alpha Knife Supply
they send it by USPS Priority mail and that will keep shipping down and they IMHO are the best when needing steelThanksIf you buy from
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
Moderator
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2004
- Messages
- 37,995
Welcome to shop talk. Fill out the info in your profile. Knowing where you live and a bit about you may let a nearby maker offer you some help, materials, or shop space.
Best way to get supplies shipped to Hawaii is in USPS flat rate boxes. Suppliers like Alpha, Jantz, K&G, Texas Knife Supply, etc. are all familiar with shipping to Hawaii.
A-ebl is an excellent knife stainless steel. Avoid the error of many new makers in making kitchen knives too thick - .10" is very thick, .06-.07" is what most of us use for kitchen knives. An excellent carbon steel is 26C3.
Handles can be made of many things. Wood is the easiest to work with hand tools. You want a small saw, a combo rasp, and lots of AO sandpaper. A combo micro-plane/rasp or saw-rasp is nice to have, too. Finishes like Tru-oil will work fine for hand worked handles. Handle blocks and scales are available from most all knife suppliers.
Making knives is not a clean hobby. The metal filings and dust will get everywhere no matter how much you try to contain them. It may be best to do the work outside on a picnic table or folding table. The only tip I can give you for working inside an apartment is to put a blanket on the work table and fold it up on the dust/grit to take outside and shake out. One on the floor under the table wouldn't be a bad idea, too. Working wet will greatly reduce airborne dust. Water with a few drops of dish soap and a teaspoon of baking soda is a good work solution. You can even file wet. Sanding is far easier and cleaner when done wet. Some folks with limited space have worked over a bathtub or sink.
A small and cheap 1X30 with disc grinder from Harbor Freight or similar stores can work for learning. It can be run off an extension cord outside.
The best files for use will be name brand files like Nicholson, Simonds, etc. The magi-cut files are very good for stock removal. You want a flat bastard and a second cut. If using files only, a finish cut is also good.
The abrasives (sandpaper) you need for the metal work will be 100 grit through 800 grit.. Get a good wet-or-dry brand like Ryno-wet or 3M. You will want lots of it if doing finishing by hand. Remember to change the water, wash the blade, clean up the sanding area, and wash your hands every time you change to a finer grit paper. If you don't you will get stray coarser grits contaminating the sanding at finer grits and causing scratches.
DMT diamond stones (actually resin bonded metal plates) are good but aren't cheap. A 8" or 10" DMT Duo-sharp stone with coarse/fine is a good investment for working down a hardened bezel and putting a starter edge on. You also want the base stand (often comes with the set) A set of two Duo-sharp stones in X-coarse/coarse and fine/X-fine is really useful.
You will also want a good sharpening stone with a medium and a fine side. Norton and similar brands are the most used.
Best way to get supplies shipped to Hawaii is in USPS flat rate boxes. Suppliers like Alpha, Jantz, K&G, Texas Knife Supply, etc. are all familiar with shipping to Hawaii.
A-ebl is an excellent knife stainless steel. Avoid the error of many new makers in making kitchen knives too thick - .10" is very thick, .06-.07" is what most of us use for kitchen knives. An excellent carbon steel is 26C3.
Handles can be made of many things. Wood is the easiest to work with hand tools. You want a small saw, a combo rasp, and lots of AO sandpaper. A combo micro-plane/rasp or saw-rasp is nice to have, too. Finishes like Tru-oil will work fine for hand worked handles. Handle blocks and scales are available from most all knife suppliers.
Making knives is not a clean hobby. The metal filings and dust will get everywhere no matter how much you try to contain them. It may be best to do the work outside on a picnic table or folding table. The only tip I can give you for working inside an apartment is to put a blanket on the work table and fold it up on the dust/grit to take outside and shake out. One on the floor under the table wouldn't be a bad idea, too. Working wet will greatly reduce airborne dust. Water with a few drops of dish soap and a teaspoon of baking soda is a good work solution. You can even file wet. Sanding is far easier and cleaner when done wet. Some folks with limited space have worked over a bathtub or sink.
A small and cheap 1X30 with disc grinder from Harbor Freight or similar stores can work for learning. It can be run off an extension cord outside.
The best files for use will be name brand files like Nicholson, Simonds, etc. The magi-cut files are very good for stock removal. You want a flat bastard and a second cut. If using files only, a finish cut is also good.
The abrasives (sandpaper) you need for the metal work will be 100 grit through 800 grit.. Get a good wet-or-dry brand like Ryno-wet or 3M. You will want lots of it if doing finishing by hand. Remember to change the water, wash the blade, clean up the sanding area, and wash your hands every time you change to a finer grit paper. If you don't you will get stray coarser grits contaminating the sanding at finer grits and causing scratches.
DMT diamond stones (actually resin bonded metal plates) are good but aren't cheap. A 8" or 10" DMT Duo-sharp stone with coarse/fine is a good investment for working down a hardened bezel and putting a starter edge on. You also want the base stand (often comes with the set) A set of two Duo-sharp stones in X-coarse/coarse and fine/X-fine is really useful.
You will also want a good sharpening stone with a medium and a fine side. Norton and similar brands are the most used.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2018
- Messages
- 861
Be careful with AEBL. Most guys including myself grind it post heat treat because it warps so much. If you grind pre HT you may get bacon edging.
Might I suggest that you start by purchasing a blank. You can mount the handles to it and shape how you like. Just to get started. The blank will already be heat treated and rough or finish ground. If you get it rough, you can do the hand finishing to your liking.
As noted above, a knife needs to have some thickness before heat treating or it can warp or bacn edge. If you get it thick, you'll be forever trying to thin it. I guess you could thin it on a 140 grit atoma diamond stone by hand.
A cheap harbour freight belt sander may not be too loud and would help you clean up a knife after HT. Again, just to get started.
Might I suggest that you start by purchasing a blank. You can mount the handles to it and shape how you like. Just to get started. The blank will already be heat treated and rough or finish ground. If you get it rough, you can do the hand finishing to your liking.
As noted above, a knife needs to have some thickness before heat treating or it can warp or bacn edge. If you get it thick, you'll be forever trying to thin it. I guess you could thin it on a 140 grit atoma diamond stone by hand.
A cheap harbour freight belt sander may not be too loud and would help you clean up a knife after HT. Again, just to get started.
Richard338
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 3, 2005
- Messages
- 7,272
I made my first few while living in an apartment. I managed to access a small lockable space in the parking garage. My only power tools were a drill press and a 1/3 hp makeshift disc grinder.
I remember coating rifle barrels and hanging them to dry up on the roof. If you are determined, you can do it.
I suggest getting steel and designing your own. Premade blanks never appealed to me.
I remember coating rifle barrels and hanging them to dry up on the roof. If you are determined, you can do it.
I suggest getting steel and designing your own. Premade blanks never appealed to me.
Can you recommend a stainless that can be ground pre heat treat
Wyo Coyote
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2015
- Messages
- 132
I started like you're doing with 440C stainless. Filed fine and didn't warp when I sent it out for heat treat. Where ever you send it can give you recommendations on how thick to leave the edge.
Hengelo_77
Basic Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 6,225
Rwl34 / cpm154
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2009
- Messages
- 20,833
Make sure it's annealed.
Busto
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2011
- Messages
- 4,218
Give Chuck
Alpha Knife Supply
a call he's a Great Guy and will give you good recommendations to get you started on Stainless.
weo
Basic Member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2014
- Messages
- 3,050
This. And if you have neighbors renting below you, please be aware that you will most likely be sending filings and dust down into their living space.