"Getting to know Grandpa's pocket knife"

Pàdruig

Pàdruig

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I am writing this post at the risk of sounding completely ignorant, so I apologize if my post comes off as redundant. I did attempt due diligence and perused, albeit quickly, the current lineup of threads and I did not see this topic covered. So I will pose my thoughts and I can be corrected if necessary.

Since joining Bladeforums, I have gravitated to this particular sub-forum and though I do venture out and look at some of the other subs, this one in particular keeps pulling me back. Maybe it is the terrific atmosphere, or the good people, or the beautiful knives, I could probably go on and on. At this point, I will chalk it up to being all of the above. As I delve deeper and deeper into the realm of traditional knives, I am struck by how little I actually know about them, folders in particular. What defines a knife as a Stockman, or a Trapper, or a Barlow? What were the original purposes behind a coping blade, a Wharncliffe, a pen? I was originally going to pose the question in regards to whether there was any readily available material that provides a good break down of how such things are defined but I applied some Google-fu first and came up with this article:

Getting to know Grandpa's pocket knife (Hence the post title...)

Though this article goes over the basics of the different, more common styles and the purpose behind the blade shapes, it still does not touch on other types or terms that I have come across here. What defines a Barlow, what makes a knife a Scout style, what is a Peanut, a Beagle, etc? I guess my question is this: Are many of these terms specific to a maker, or are there a lot more different styles than what is covered in the article?

I ask, partly to increase my knowledge, and partly to arm myself with appropriate terminology so that I can start furthering my collection with such knives that strike my fancy, stylistically and functionally. Thank you all for taking the time.
 
Didn't look at the linked article but some pattern names are terms of art used by many manufacturers, some are brand specific, and some are collector terms that are newer than the patterns they describe.

There's as much or more misinformation as information on the internet. I'd recommend buying Levine's Guide to Knives and their Values 4th Edition. It's hard to find though. The 5th Edition (renamed Blade's Guide to Knives and their Values) is much easier to find and has the same text but the values are messed up so ignore them. The text in this book will answer the majority of your questions.
 
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That was a great article, especially since it differentiated the wharncliffe and sheepsfoot. I've come across a lot of articles that treated those as the same.
Just keep reading on the forum here and surfing the net. You'll find all your answers easily.
Just for one answer, the Barlow was the first mass produced knife over 400 years ago. It's known for one large bolster necessary to keep everything tight. If you google the term Barlow you'll find a few really good articles on it's history. Have fun.
 
A. G. Russell, a BF Dealer Member, has a knife encyclopedia on his website. It's not perfect but it is very informative and a good resource for someone looking for descriptions and info on patterns and blade shapes. Have fun!
 
I haven't looked at AG Russell's encyclopedia in a while but much of that material comes from a source inside the industry. Schrade's "Handbook of Knife Knowledge and Terms" is the main source acknowledged by AG Russell. Writers of non fiction often say that an article is only as good as its sources and Schrade is a pretty good source.
 
supratentorial said:
I haven't looked at AG Russell's encyclopedia in a while but much of that material comes from a source inside the industry. Schrade's "Handbook of Knife Knowledge and Terms" is the main source acknowledged by AG Russell. Writers of non fiction often say that an article is only as good as its sources and Schrade is a pretty good source.
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Interesting fact, Jake. Thanks for the input.
 
Thanks guys for the input and the direction. I just looked up Levine's Guide to Knives and their Values 4th Edition, it wasn't too terribly difficult to track down. However, at a price range of anywhere between $113 to well over $500, I might have to just put it on the list and keep an eye out for it. Otherwise, the other edition is far more reasonably priced. Does it have to be 5th edition though? I did notice that there are other editions available beyond 5th.

I will look into the other sources mentioned and, of course, continue to peruse here and put Google to work. Thank you all for your time, I really appreciate it.
 
I don't know what happened after the 5th edition so I don't know whether or not to recommend it. Bernard Levine described the changes between the 4th and the 5th. The changes mainly affected the value system. The 7th edition in PDF is floating around on the web but I doubt it is intentional. It shouldn't be expensive to buy the 5th and later editions. You can also check the local library. The text in the 4th (and the 5th) is definitely a must read.
 
The later editions are going for anywhere between $10 and $50, so I will pick a copy up, particularly the 5th.
 
Study here and ask for help :D Usually mutually beneficial ;) Traditional knives certainly do come in a multitude of patterns, names and hybrids, naming often evolves due to marketing or fashionable parlance. Most 'laymen' or outsiders often refer to all Traditional Old School knives as 'Penknives' when that is in fact a type: single spring, 2 blades, this is just one example. But, the fascination of Traditionals is the huge variety they come in.:thumbup:
 
Will Power said:
Study here and ask for help :D Usually mutually beneficial ;) Traditional knives certainly do come in a multitude of patterns, names and hybrids, naming often evolves due to marketing or fashionable parlance. Most 'laymen' or outsiders often refer to all Traditional Old School knives as 'Penknives' when that is in fact a type: single spring, 2 blades, this is just one example. But, the fascination of Traditionals is the huge variety they come in.:thumbup:
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First welcome to the porch we're glad to have you. This is great advice Will has here and particularly his first sentence. Also explore all this forum has to offer the manufacturer forums, collector forums and so on. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here that are happy to help. Also explore around manufacturers web sites for example GEC has a knife terminology section that is great. http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/pocket-knives/knife-terminology/
I would also recommend to keep an eye on the exchange and the sold info on the big auction site this will start giving you an idea of knife values. The last thing I would say is tell your money goodbye because this addiction comes on fast and hard.:D
 
r redden said:
First welcome to the porch we're glad to have you. This is great advice Will has here and particularly his first sentence. Also explore all this forum has to offer the manufacturer forums, collector forums and so on. There are a lot of very knowledgeable folks here that are happy to help. Also explore around manufacturers web sites for example GEC has a knife terminology section that is great. http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/pocket-knives/knife-terminology/
I would also recommend to keep an eye on the exchange and the sold info on the big auction site this will start giving you an idea of knife values. The last thing I would say is tell your money goodbye because this addiction comes on fast and hard.:D
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Thank you all, very much, for the advice. I am already diving in here and it has been a very welcome alternative to the social media norm these days. As far as keeping my money... Yeah, I think my wife is on high alert. :D Though I am very fortunate to have a better half who supports my hobbies, she even has a few knives of her own, she is apt to wonder at times why I need more than just one or two... :rolleyes:
 
Pàdruig;16718675 said:
What defines a knife as a Stockman, or a Trapper, or a Barlow? What were the original purposes behind a coping blade, a Wharncliffe, a pen? What makes a knife a Scout style, what is a Peanut, a Beagle, etc?
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To specifically answer your questions in your original post.

A Stockman pattern is usually serpentine shaped 3 bladed knife, with a large main clip blade, and 2 secondary blades. Originally used most commonly by ranchers and cattle-raisers.

A Trapper is a larger sized 2 bladed jack knife style, usually with a clip blade, and a spey blade. Originally used mostly by hunters/trappers for skinning furs and various tasks.

A Barlow is a very traditional pattern with a large bolster on only 1 end, with either 1 or 2 blades. Various sizes were/are made.

A Coping Blade is a sharp pointed blade shape, that has a flat edge like a sheepsfoot blade, but also has the back angle sharpley away from the spine. They usually are a shorter length blade, so good for cutting in smaller areas when needed.

A Wharncliff Blade is a newer design (compared to many other blade shape designs), that has a flat cutting edge, and a long curved back edge. It provides a blade that comes to a very sharp point, which is favorable for cutting on flat surfaces, or for fine cutting work.

A Pen Blade is a common blade used in smaller tasks, with the front and back edge of the blade sloping evenly to a point (kind of bullet shaped). Originally called a pen blade because they were often used to sharpen quills to be used for writing pens.

A Scout knife is usually a 4 bladed knife (2 on each end), on a handle design that is symmetrical on both ends. They usually have a bail (ring) on them. They usually have a couple blades, along with some other tools such as a can opener, bottle opener, screwdriver, or punch. They were very popular with the Boy Scouts.

A Peanut knife is a smaller 2 bladed jack-knife, usually with a large and a smaller pen blade, but sometimes with other blade shapes. Not sure where it got its name.

The Beagle knife I believe is a Great Eastern Cutlery term for their #18 pattern, which is a 2 bladed jack-knife, similar to a Peanut but slightly larger.
 
Someone sent me an email with questions as follow up to this discussion and I thought it might be helpful to post here as well.

I gave away two copies of the 4th Edition for free in the Traditional Forum a few years back when they were selling for $200+ each. I wish I had more copies to give away.

The author does not recommend buying the 5th. Here is what he said about the 5th edition: http://www.knife-expert.com/lg5review.htm But since the text is unchanged, I think it should be fine for someone who is just interested in history. The missing relative value system is a shame. It was useful. The crazy individual prices are also a shame but book prices often don't reflect real market values and auction prices which can fluctuate quite a bit. Logic or common sense does not always apply to prices. And fakes have done serious damage to knife collecting.

For most folks, the text in the 4th (also reproduced in the 5th) is all they will need. For some, the next step will be Goins' Encyclopedia. Serious collectors will want to look at old catalogs and period articles and primary sources. They will make their own notes and corrections in the margins of reference books. People wanting help ID'ing fakes will want the book on Counterfeiting Antique Cutlery. People interested in Sheffield knives will also want Tweedale's The Sheffield Knife Book. People interested in German knives will also want Carter's book on German knives and swords. Here's Bernard Levine's list of older books: http://www.knife-expert.com/kbib99.txt

Hope that helps.
 
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