Give me the dirt on S30V

L

Les Voorhies

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I'm a little embarassed to be posting this thread, i've been making knives for about 8 or 9 years but i've been out of touch with the knife community for the last 4 years, now i join up here and i'm seeing alot of mention of S30V and i've never heard of it before, the last Blade magazine i looked at i think had an article about ATS-55 (i think it was 55) and 440V was becoming popular but i opted to stick with ATS-34. Anyway, does anyone care to fill me in, how does it compare with ATS-34, do i need 2 ovens, i havent seen it in my K&G or Koval catalog, where can i get it and anything else you think i might need to know about it.

I did do a search on the forum but there was way too hits to wade through.

Thanks

Les
 
Well I know admiral steel sells it and has the heat treat specs posted on it's web site.good luck
 
I buy mine directly from crucible. S30V is probably the most popular current Stainless out there right now and for the forseeable future. The heat treating of it isnt a big deal, if you do a search on this forum you will get alot of info reguarding the heat treat process. It will be harder for you to grind and finish than ATS-34/154CM and mirror finishes are almost non exsistent. It is also very tough to get a good satin finish on it. If you have worked any of the CPM metals (S60V/440V,S90V/420V) it will handle and perform like those. During heat treat though you need to really cool this steel down quickley otherwise it wont RC high enough. That will be discussed in detail if you do a search also. Best of luck, Crucible and S30V Rocks!
 
Let me add one other thing, I usually work and prefer folder blades in the .120-.125 range. When I ordered the .125 from Crucible, it dials in at like .140+. There is a little scale on it but not bad. So now when I order it I get the thinner stuff that they tell me is .110 and when it's cleaned up after heat treat it's about .122-.125. So if you order it beware it comes thicker than advertised. I dont have a surface grinder so thats why I mention it, alot more work taking the thickness down without one and keeping it flat and even.
 
IIRC, the reason for the oversize is to provide plenty left, after taking off .007 per side to remove any microvoids that may be there. :eek:
There are many threads on this steel. Punch S30V into the search feature, and search this forum only, and you should get many hits, in fact there is another, besides this, going right now. :)

BTW, Lee, welcome to BFC!:D
 
Ron Duncan down in Mo. is doing awesome things with S30v maybe he will chime in, i have one he made and as a outfitter i couldnt ask for a better knife then he made me in looks, balance and edge holding.Im not a fan of SS but this changed my mind on s30v
Romey
Cowboyinc
Montana
 
I've done some S30V and ATS-34. No expert, but my experience is very much what's been posted already.

Comparing S30V to ATS-34

S30V - Easier to heattreat, Much harder for final finish, about the same in the annealed state for cutting and initial grinding, on a belt is easier to get razor sharp.


I've heard great reports on edge holding. However I haven't personally done controlled, side-by-side cutting tests.

Final line, I have more fun building ATS-34 knives because of the finish work.

Steve
 
Thanks for the info Romey! I would like to hear more about how your blade sharpens and how you maintain the edge. I have one blade in that S30v and I've not really got to try it out.
I believe Ron Duncan could do anything he set out to do...I love looking at his work!
 
My only using knives in S30V have been from R.J. Martin(who knows a thing or two about heat treating), and my results have been great. It took about 2 months of light use(cutting paper, steak, opening mail, etc...), before my neck knife needed more than a few strops on the back of an old leather belt to restore the edge.

Having said that, however, I find that I prefer BG42 to any stainless. I just like the way it finishes out. But, that's just a preference. S30V is great stuff too.
 
Comparing S30V to ATS-34

S30V - Easier to heattreat, Much harder for final finish, about the same in the annealed state for cutting and initial grinding, on a belt is easier to get razor sharp.
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Everything I have heard goes against this. Now I'm confused. I've always heard that s30v is much more difficult to grind. About the theat treat, I dont know but it has more alloying materials in it, so it seems that it would be more difficult. I'm not disagreeing with you but voicing my thoughts. I've also heard that it is more difficult to get a good edge. Could anyone clear this up for me.


th
 
TH,

Remember I'm comparing S30V to ATS-34.

how is s30v heat treated?
Click to expand...

Here's the spec sheet and instructions on S30V:
www.crucibleservice.com/datash/dsS30Vv3.pdf You'll find the times and temps very close to ATS-34.

I've always heard that s30v is much more difficult to grind.
Click to expand...

It's more difficult to finish after hardening! The grinding characteristics in the annealed state aren't much different than ATS-34 - as far as us knife makers are concerned. Although it does tend to clog up belts more.


About the theat treat, I dont know but it has more alloying materials in it, so it seems that it would be more difficult.
Click to expand...

Again, heattreating is not that much different than ATS-34. It does have Vanadium; which ATS-34/154CM doesn't. That seems to bring the as quenched hardness up. At least for me.

Toss out all the hype from the press releases. S30V isn't a magical, mysterious material wrought in the caverns of the gods. It's just another tool, stainless steel. I view it as a Vanadium steel that has enough to make a difference, but not enough to make it a PITA (like S90V - 9% Vanadium). As a comparison BG42 has 1.2%.

Steve
 
Crucible, on-line, has HT specs.

I'm not sure yet if it is relatively easy to nail down the HT. I have made a few knives of it and have had better than fair to good edge retension results but know I need to dedicate some time to experimenting with it before making another knife of it. Except for relative difficulty in finishing to a very fine grit it is probably among tops for hunter size and smaller blades and I look forward to working with it again.

P.S. If it hasn't already been mentioned, Pop's also carries S30V.

RL
 
Thanks for the the info, the crucible site still leave me a little confused bout the HT, maybe i missunderstood but i thought when it says "preheat: heat to 1550-1600, equalize" then it says "austenitize: 1900-2000" it was my understanding that with the CPM440V this had to be done quickly like take it out of a 1600 deg oven and go right into the 1900-2000, and it doesnt seem to say on that spec sheet how son it needs to go from 1600 to 1900. did i get that wrong?
 
You may not have that wrong. That is a question for Mete and hopefully he will see that question and respond. I have only one HT oven and go from equalize to austenitize via ramping. If he suggests otherwise I will have to start saving another thousand dollars for another oven. However, Mete has been involved with me through this forum on other HT's and he is aware that I ramp after equalize and he has never mentioned anything about it to me yet.

Soak at equalize for a few minutes but not more than 15. I may not have my equalize time optimized yet but I equalize for about 7 minutes, which may be a little short.

RL
 
"preheat: heat to 1550-1600, equalize" then it says "austenitize: 1900-2000"

You ramp it up in tempature. So if your stabilized at 1550, you let it cycle a few times and then turn the dial up to 1950ish and let it soak there for a while after the heat stablizes. The key after that is very rapid cooling. Some guys put it on a magnetic chuck to keep it straight. Some put it between big alunimum plates. I clamp mine in a "BIG" vise and have a large fan blowing on high. I can literally hand touch my blade after it comes out of the oven glowing at 1950 degrees in about 2 minutes time with only air cooling. If you dont cool it down fast enough you wont get the RC high enough. That leads to other problems like cant hold an edge, liner lock ball galling the blade etc. I grind my blades after heat treat to try to keep them as straight as possible during heat treat. I get my S30v in the 59-60 RC range. Also a double temper is required afterwards.
 
Les,

Great question. I've not used any of the crucibles, and have the same questions. I've played with O-1, 1095, 440C, ATS-34 and D-2. Looking at the compositions of S30V and S60V, what makes S30V better than S60V? I understand the influence of the vanadium for resistance to wear, but the impurity sinkers like silicon and mn are gone in the S30V.

Dan
 
Originally posted by dhannon
Les,

what makes S30V better than S60V? I understand the influence of the vanadium for resistance to wear, but the impurity sinkers like silicon and mn are gone in the S30V.

Dan
Click to expand...


IIRC, S60V is the same as T440V?? If so, S30V is not subject to edge chipping like S60V.
It's just a tougher steel all around, and was designed from the ground up as a cutlery steel.
 
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