Glue Round 3 Final

Sando

Sando

Knife Maker
Joined
Jul 4, 2002
Messages
1,148
(Thought I'd open a thread that just has a result, for those that only a recap. Remember this isn't the result of all the tests Tracy and I have done. It's just the result of my thin-line test.)

Winners - E-120HP & Xtreme

frozen1.jpg


OK Report on testbar 3 - The thin glue line test.

To get everything up to date......

This time the bar was ground clean with a 50grit. Then sandblasted with real sand. Wiped off with a paper towel (no solvents).

The attachment method was C-clamping with moderate pressure.

-------------------------------------------------------
After a few days cure:

Impact test (heretoforwards known as "Wack")
Wack
JB Weld - Failed
Wack
Dishwasher
Freeze one hour -
West Systems - Failed
Freeze eight hours
Wack
Wack
Acraglas Gel - Failed
Wack
Boil in water for 15 minutes
Loctite 406 Super Glue - Failed
Wack
Wack
Wack
Warm Oven 8 hours
Frozen in block of ice 8 hours
Drop Block of Ice from 5 feet.
Gorilla Glue - Failed
Loctite U05-fl - Failed


Still in there:

Loctite Xtreme - You can move the wood a little bit but it's still on (It's under the steel bar)
Loctite E-120HP - The wood broke apart. 80% still attached to steel

frozen2.jpg


OK So the dropping the frozen block was a bit out of line. However, it was fun.

All of the final four are great glues. Some thoughts on this test (remember on this test the glue was squeezed to a zero glue line):

E-120HP - it never gave up. As you can see the wood came apart before the glue broke

U-05FL - held up thru all those tests just fine and it forms a flexible bond. Just might be the best all around adhesive for full tang construction

Xtreme - weird stuff. Because it is so flexible it absorbed the shocks. It not only stayed attached but prevented the wood from coming apart. Also, it's the only adhesive that stuck thru the Simple Green. The question now is "Can you use it on carbon steels?"

Gorilla Glue - holds wood better than DEVCON, West Systems, Acraglas Gel. Tracy has found that it doesn't work with all materials tho.

JBWeld - if you leave a little glue line, and let it cure slowly it's a fantastic adhesive. But this test showed me you can't squeeze it as thin as some other ones.

Acraglas - I'm testing the gel, Tracy has the regular. I can tell you that when squeezed tight Acraglas Gel is inferior to either of the Loctite commercial products and Gorilla Glue. Because Acraglas what Acraglas is designed for, I'm still going to use it on hidden tang filler. Nothing I've found in testing alters that belief.

Do with this information as you see fit.


Steve
 
Thanks, Steve, for all the effort and expense! It's good information for the old brainbox and very much appreciated! :)
 
"zero glue line"? in brazing a gap of .003" is the strongest .I wondered if the zero glue line was the manufacturers advice or did you try different thicknesses ?
 
Mete,

I've run a few tests. For example JB Weld with a light clamping is fantastic.

For this test I wanted to see what each would do if squeezed to invisible. Ideally that's what we all want, right? An adhesive that works with a zero gap. If all adhesives require a gap, so be it. But it wouldn't it be nice to find one that doesn't, aye?

Tracy is testing Loctite 324. It's specifically designed for zero gap. He's found the stuff is awsome (see other thread).

120HP is listed as it's strongest is .003 to .009 thickness. Cool, I wanted to know how it would perform with near zero. It still performs very well!

Regarding that final test with the ice block. Admittadly that's not at all scientific as the stresses are uneven and unrepeatable. I was just going to let it thaw. But there I was, frozen block with steel and glued stuff and a concrete surface. I couldn't help myself..... :)

There were only four contestants left at the time. I was a tie breaker.

BTW for those that are married to JB Weld or Acraglas (I was), I recommend light clamping so there is some kinda glue line. For those that want a zero glue line - E-120HP is the answer.

Steve
 
Steve - I've had the same results with Acraglas that you speak of. A zero-line does not work. It's better as a gap-filler, or with a thin line.

Same with JB Weld - I always leave a gap.



Let me make a suggestion. Somewhere, there needs to be a "cumulative results/info" webpage to show what's been done so far. It's hard to bounce around the different threads and try to "put it all together in my head". Do you have the webspace available?

Maybe Dan Gray could put it on his. I have the space available (just finished up my website) but it would probably be better on a page on his site (or on yours - if you got it).


Reason?

I think that it's important to remember which glues shrink & which expand. For example, JB Weld expands as it cures. It creates a "pressed fit" when gluing guards, etc. It would nice to have this in mind when reviewing test results such as these. Which is why it makes perfect sense that JB Weld would be one of the first to fail.
 
With good writing and record keeping.....I can see this getting published. ;)
 
Dan, buddy, we're on the same page again.

Tracy started a spreadsheet like you suggested. We're bouncing it back and forth trying to get all the results/grades comparable. It's kinda hard because our tests are a bit different and our glue list doesn't overlap.

Still we're trying.

Plan is to publish the recap on Tracy's site - probably mine too.

RE: publishing.

That's been in the back of my mind. The issue is soo religious some people won't like the results and complain how the testing was done and get on my case.

Then again, lots of people have questioned stuff already and further tests were done.

.....

Steve
 
just have to follow the proper channels, Steve. ;)



your efforts won't go unrewarded - you've learned tons already. And giving back to the knife community is its own reward. That said, with some good editing and pointed in the right direction, this has enormous potential. Keep going with it and don't be afraid to repeat a test just for the heck of it...

Thanks for all the work you are doing.
 
Sando said:
The issue is soo religious some people won't like the results and complain how the testing was done and get on my case.
Click to expand...

The only reason I don't like the results is I just bought two syringes of Devcon before you began the testing. :( ;)
 
That is a tremendous lot of work and expense you have gone to Steve. Thank you for sharing these results.

RL
 
Roger, You're welcome.

Donut-man, There's a whole bunch of custom knives that use Devcon (like Loveless). I wouldn't hesitate to use what you have. Just besure to use bolts (like Loveless) or peen. However, I wouldn't use it for methods that have non-peened pins.

Dan,

You're absolutely right about re-tests. If I can't confirm the results they aren't worth much. On the other hand I'm running out of steam. I'm getting so spoiled by using the commercial gun stuff I don't feel like getting out the measuring spoons again....

I might be interested in trying other commercial products that use the same gun, like 3M.

We'll see,

Steve
 
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