Go to Prison after using your knife on another person in self defense?

J

Jack19

Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
78
I found this link on another forum and thought some of you might find it interesting and useful.

This is a MUST READ for anyone who carries a knife for self defense.


"Many armed citizens carry pocketknives for utility use as
well as for last-resort defense if unable to use their gun.
Others carry pocketknives at times when carrying a gun
is illegal or otherwise prohibited. Like a firearm carried
for self defense, a knife’s effectiveness and legal
defensibility is in direct proportion to the knowledge and
education of the citizen employing it. Just as a leading
concern at the Network is assuring that members
understand the imperative for articulating the whys and
hows of using a firearm for self defense, we also strive
to educate about problems that attach to using knives in
self defense."

The rest of the article can be found here:

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/images/stories/Network_2013-01.pdf
 
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That was a great article. Very enlightening to the point where I will be taking a tactical folder course in the next few months. As a martial arts instructor, I know how much trouble you can get into for defending yourself with the tools you have on hand, be it a knife, firearm, or your own body.
 
Depends on the State you live in. AZ has very powerful laws on the book for self defense.
 
Many great points there.

Everyone should know their state and local laws. And hope the knowledge never gets put to use!
 
Very interesting article above. I carry two knives primarily for use in my job. One is a two blade 2" Gerber pocket knife for small areas requiring cutting small objects causing stoppage of conveyor rollers such as strapping tape from product wrapping around the rollers and a larger 3" for larger obstrictions and trimming of conveyor belting and other misc objects. I look at the knives as a tool the same as a wrench to be used when necessary.

But I have asked myself on many occasions if I would use or even want to use my tools for self defense, Knife, wrench, hammer, screwdriver or whatever and my choice is always no. Then again I have never been in thaat type of defensive situation in 70 years of life so I reall don't know what I would do if I was being attacked. If I was present and my wife or children (all now older) were being attacked I would probably react uncontrollably and do ANYTHING to protect them. I would rather spend twenty years in prison than see my family hurt. At least I would know I tried. With that self respect I could survive in prison. Or be killed by someone in prison who was just like the guys I might have been defending my family member from. Oh well who really knows what one would/should do -- there are a lot of really trash people out there.
 
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Yo Mama said:
Depends on the State you live in. AZ has very powerful laws on the book for self defense.
Click to expand...

Just curious. Powerful laws in what respect. Do they actually support self defense or practically make it impossible to defend yourself within the law.

From what I have been reading You are better off if you take a beating and let your health insurance bring you back to as close to normal as possible. This s a quagmire of what to do and when and how. Or do you JUST BEG Please don't hurt me. Yah Right LOL
 
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Any self defense, from a gun to a handful of sand, must be used in proportion to the threat. If the bad guy tells you to hand over your cell phone, and you stab him, you were defending yourself, but not relative to the threat. Now, put a gun in his hand, and you totally changed things to relative force. Face it, self defense can turn to offense quickly in the eyes of a jury. You can, and people do, go to jail defending themself.
 
Ietech said:
Just curious. Powerful laws in what respect. Do they actually support self defense or practically make it impossible to defend yourself within the law.

From what I have been reading You are better off if you take a beating and let your health insurance bring you back to as close to normal as possible. This s a quagmire of what to do and when and how. Or do you JUST BEG Please don't hurt me.
Click to expand...

Yeah------do this ^^^. Let us know how that works out for ya. :D


Unfortunately, many would have you just take the beating or beg for your life. I guess thats when you got a choice to make: do you want to be a victim or do you want to come out on top ? Me, i will choose the latter EVERY time. In fact, i chose the latter in AZ, while passing through on vacation with my family. I was confronted by a man with a knife in the parking lot of a prominent Hotel, while getting luggage out of my trunk. I told my family to run inside & have the desk clerk call 911. He asked for money, i said absolutely not & told him to step off. He turned,took one step & i heard "click", he turned back around & showed the knife while saying "yo holmes, what if i just cut you & take your money." Then he heard a "click" from me as i said "yo holmes, how bad you want it, cause i will cut you too ?" He thought for a second & started backing up, then he turned & ran. I was lucky i know, it could have gone bad quickly. When the police arrived, they looked but said they found no one. Had i been a sheeple, i may have lost my money & my life that night. Criminals tend to get bolder & more aggressive when they KNOW their victims can't or wont fight back. That is a fact. I have been working with criminals going on 25 years now. It is best to make the choice before something happens. I have made that choice. Nobody ever wants to die or get seriously injured, but i'll be damned if i am gonna let someone take what i work hard for, without a fight. But thats just me.
 
That is exactly right -- so no gun but the guy proceeds to beat me up at 70 I really don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of stopping a young punk with my fists.

What then it seems the law favors the criminal again with this kinda stuff. Disregard age. What if a 130# non agressive tries to defend himself LOL he gets the hell beat out of him just for laughs. (Know if it happening to a guy who couldn't defend himself on a good day) What if he got lucky and did succeed in hurting the bad guy by accident --- oh well I'm sure it has happened.
 
TwinStick said:
Yeah------do this ^^^. Let us know how that works out for ya. :D


Unfortunately, many would have you just take the beating or beg for your life. I guess thats when you got a choice to make: do you want to be a victim or do you want to come out on top ? Me, i will choose the latter EVERY time. In fact, i chose the latter in AZ, while passing through on vacation with my family. I was confronted by a man with a knife in the parking lot of a prominent Hotel, while getting luggage out of my trunk. I told my family to run inside & have the desk clerk call 911. He asked for money, i said absolutely not & told him to step off. He turned,took one step & i heard "click", he turned back around & showed the knife while saying "yo holmes, what if i just cut you & take your money." Then he heard a "click" from me as i said "yo holmes, how bad you want it, cause i will cut you too ?" He thought for a second & started backing up, then he turned & ran. I was lucky i know, it could have gone bad quickly. When the police arrived, they looked but said they found no one. Had i been a sheeple, i may have lost my money & my life that night. Criminals tend to get bolder & more aggressive when they KNOW their victims can't or wont fight back. That is a fact. I have been working with criminals going on 25 years now. It is best to make the choice before something happens. I have made that choice. Nobody ever wants to die or get seriously injured, but i'll be damned if i am gonna let someone take what i work hard for, without a fight. But thats just me.
Click to expand...

Well Put and that is exactly how I feel --- but you not only have to make that instantainious decision while you are thinking if this goes bad and I win will I go to jail --- I think I would do as you did -- but if the guy didn't run I prolly would lose due to age and weakness.
 
To be clear, the majority of the time we are talking about using a knife against an unarmed attacker under circumstances where said attacker has some other advantage (size, position, numbers). Knife-on-knife is extremely rare and the majority of the time both people end up dead, and knife-on-gun is essentially suicide.

From all the case-law I have read about self-defense cases with knives, it's not really as bad as some of this makes it sound. The reason people get in trouble when they use knives in defense is because they have a terrible understanding of what self-defense really means.

The most common mistakes by individuals are these:
-Being a participant in an easily avoidable altercation. In a surprising number of cases, the "victim" had ample opportunity to leave without worry of being chased, and was engaged in posturing and bravado that made them continue the conflict. Supporting cases are In Re Julianna, and State v Thornton.
-Direct provocation of the assailant. Deliberately picking a fight because you're a punk@$$ removes any right you have to be called a victim.
-Thinking a knife is a less-lethal measure, especially when having no training whatsoever on how a knife is used in defense. Thornton involved a stab in the leg, that (surprise!) contains vital arteries and proved lethal in seconds.

The cases I do read where the person was never charged or was acquitted, involved them being cornered or knocked down, or otherwise unable to escape. In a Baltimore case a few years ago a college kid cut a burglar down with a katana. But it was ruled justifiable because: the burglar was hiding quite some distance away when he was found, the kid had his back to a wall and made no attempt to approach him. All the kid did was shout to his friend that he'd found the burglar and to call the cops. The burglar became enraged and despite having a massive opening to simply leave, instead charged the kid like some kind of wild animal. In two other cases, the victim was knocked prone by their assailant. In one, the assailant was a drunk bar patron who attacked the owner after being told to leave. He was on top of the victim choking him when the owner pulled out his pocket knife and stabbed him in the throat. In the other, a man was in his apartment and was in an argument with his friend, whom had stolen his Xbox and sold it for drug money. On being discovered for his crime, the friend attacked him and knocked him to the ground. The man grabbed a kitchen knife that had fallen to the floor and slashed the assailant across the abdomen, which proved lethal.
 
Yo Mama said:
Depends on the State you live in. AZ has very powerful laws on the book for self defense.
Click to expand...

Yup, TN also. And no requirement to retreat.

Doesn't matter if it's a knife, gun, or anything else, deadly force always comes down to same thing: reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury.

However, you have to make that decision in a flash, and everyone else down the line gets all the time they want to decide if you were indeed justified by your decision having been reasonable.

- OS
 
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