Going back to oilstones. Dry or fluids?

hiwa

hiwa

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Jun 7, 2009
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Having used a ton of different sharpeners over the years for my knives and wood working tools, I am appreciating the edges and results I've been getting from oilstones again( Norton Crystolon and fine india types.)
I have a bunch of DMT stones I've used for years, like the 10" F/XF , diafolds , pocket sharpeners , etc. I have worn out more than a few of them ,including the rod types. They sharpen well when relatively new ,but after a couple of years seem to produce poorer results for me. I still like the DC4 for my bush bag because of it's size, ans so far ,good results. For major sharpening jobs, I prefer my good old Norton combination stone (8") I usually sharpen dry for a while, and wipe away swarf with WD-40 and a rag and continue. That stone is going on 20 years ,very little dishing , and produces fine edges for my uses.
Do any of you oil stone users use water as a flushing agent , oil , or just use them dry as per Juranich's advice ? I am interested in any feedback. Thanks. :)
 
After a decade or more, I have yet to wear out any of my DMT hones; I use them dry. I clean them off with BreakFree every couple of months, which seems to lift out micro-particles of steel and restore the cutting performance. Steels such as ATS-34, CPM-154, VG-10, S30V and D2 seem to respond better to diamond hones -- maybe due to the ultra-hard carbides. For high carbon steels such as 1095, Carbon V, 52100, Krupp W9 (Roselli) and plain old 1070, I get superb edges using a huge old Black Arkansas bench stone that I inherited from a great-uncle cabinet maker. I lube it with a few drops of 3-in-1 Oil, and wipe it off after use. This seems to keep the pores free of scarf.
 
I find that some of my harder steels respond better to diamond stones as well. Sharpening them on an oilstone just takes longer. I do seem to get a higher polish with diamonds in the higher grits (er.1200) , but I've never been obsessed with getting mirror edges ,just a sharp "working" knife. I always used to wash my stones (oil or otherwise) with comet after use.
 
I use WD 40 on my India stones, when I don't use them dry.
 
I haven't used anything except water on stones in 15 years. I don't plan to use anything except water in the next 15 years. That said, I do use the stones I got from Jurantich dry... But my diamond stones and Japanese waterstones I use wet with a lot of water.

Stitchawl
 
I agree with your observation that the diamond stones poop out over time. Mine didn't last a year. I had the 10X4 DMT stones. They are now retired. I use the 2 1/2"X 1/2"X 11 1/2" Norton stones arranged as a triangular prism over an oil bath (USP mineral oil). I turn the stones in the oil to coat them and then squeegee the uppermost stone off with a rubber spatula. The squeegeed oil falls back into the trough. Just wipe the blade with a rag between grit changes so you don't carry a coarser grit on to a finer stone.
 
If you are using loose stones, wash them in USP mineral oil over a plastic shoe storage box using a automobile parts brush (conical tip). Sqeegee the stone off on both sides with a rubber kitchen spatula and stand the stone on end in a tin can with a rag in the bottom for extra drainage. To get knuckle clearance for sharpening, make wooden block that is as long as your stone and as wide and tall as the stone's width. Cover the top of your "brick" with a scrap of bicycle innertube to keep the stone from sliding. The shoe box box comes with a cover to keep the dust out. You can get USP mineral oil at the pharmacy.
 
With the wide range of steels on our ever growing collections it very hard to have just one abrasive type to sharpen them with. I like my diamonds because they cover a wide range of steels but there are some things the good'ol stones handle better. First thing that comes to mind are carbon steels, for whatever reason carbon type (excluding PM steels) steels grind slower and seem harder to get sharp with diamonds. Second is scandi grinds, I always seem to have issues when trying to sharpen them with diamonds but with oil or water stones those issues go away.

So instead of trying to find "one" best sharpening stone/system I've decided to use the best abrasives/stones for steel/grind. I use my diamonds for the hard stuff and naturals & sandpaper for the rest.

For lube I like water or soapy water.
 
Hiwa, I use and clean my stones just like you and Bill De, dry and clean with WD-40 . My Norton JUM-3 will cut most knife steels if not I have the diamond and I treat them the same way . I have an asortment of AO, Arkansas and ceramic stones which don't see much use . I'd treat them the same anyway . DM
 
tiguy7 said:
I agree with your observation that the diamond stones poop out over time. Mine didn't last a year. I had the 10X4 DMT stones. They are now retired.
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I find this interesting...
I have DMT diamond stones dating back to the early 80's that are still working as well as they did when I first bought them. I have a DMT Diamond-V that I bought in the late 70's that's also in fine shape. Did you use a lot of pressure on your stones? That can rip the diamonds out of their matrix easily.

Stitchawl
 
stitchawl said:
I find this interesting...
I have DMT diamond stones dating back to the early 80's that are still working as well as they did when I first bought them. I have a DMT Diamond-V that I bought in the late 70's that's also in fine shape. Did you use a lot of pressure on your stones? That can rip the diamonds out of their matrix easily.

Stitchawl
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After reading a lot of posts here on the subject, I think that has been the case with me. Using lighter pressure is definately good advice. I still like diamonds for my packable stones and rods as I get more metal removal for a given contact area. This has been my experience anyhow.
 
I think it interesting that although Norton India stones come pre-oiled, the literature that comes with them says that water is a suitable lubricant to use with them insted of oil. I just bought two combination coarse/fine Norton India stones -- one a 4" diameter round stone and the other a 8"x2"x1" stone. The 4" diameter stone makes a good portable, take along, stone.

All of the above said, I also have some DMT stones that I use along with the Norton India stones.

The 4" diameter stone along with a DMT dual dia-fold fine/extra fine sharpener are good sharpening companions to take on outings.
 
Ah, there's the rub. Lighter pressure = slow sharpening. Heavier pressure = slow stones. Slow stones = slow sharpening. I sent my stones in to DMT for evaluation. The engineers said, "They still scratch glass, so they're OK". Those OK stones take about a week to produce an edge.
 
I wish someone could give a definative answer on this; whether diamond stones last ? There seems to be a real divided opinion on this . I know they are pricey and if they don't last then they lack economy . DM
 
I have some diamond "stones" for my Lansky that I have had for at least 20 yrs. I have sharpened a lot of knives in that time. When they get clogged up with metal particles, I just give them a good scrubbing with some dish washing liquid and hot water.
 
As to the question of diamond hones wearing out....

When I first started using diamonds I had many questions that no one seemed to have the answers for. After some searching and coming up empty handed I decided to do the logical thing and call DMT. I called and asked to speak with the most knowledgeable sharpener they had.

In a lengthy conversation one of the qestions I asked was "how long do they last?" and this was his response. "Everything wears out, with proper care and usage your DMT hones should last as long as a typical stone but depending on how much you use them this time could be shorter or longer"

So in short, if you use them correctly they should last a lifetime and from my experiences with them this seems about right.
 
Modoc ED said:
I think it interesting that although Norton India stones come pre-oiled, the literature that comes with them says that water is a suitable lubricant to use with them insted of oil.
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I find that interesting too. I know that Boride, the company that makes Edge Pro stones, pre-oils their stones too. The amount of oil they use must not be significant since those too can be used with water. However, I have heard of people using acetone to clean the pre-oil oil out of the stones to try to lessen the speed at which the stone loads up with metal. I can't verify that this actually helps though.
 
knifenut1013 said:
As to the question of diamond hones wearing out...
In a lengthy conversation one of the qestions I asked was "how long do they last?" and this was his response. "Everything wears out, with proper care and usage your DMT hones should last as long as a typical stone but depending on how much you use them this time could be shorter or longer"

I thought I had read this quote somewhere before . So, I retrieved the box my X-coarse DMT stone came in and sure enough . This statement appears on it word for word . Perhaps the guy on the other end was using his cue cards with standard answers . However, I have a fine diamond stone which I purchased new in 1998 and its seen some hard use yet is still giving me some good edges . So, there is some truth in his statement . DM
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Q card or straight fact he was able to answer all questions without hesitation. Everything I was told has happened exactly as stated so for me I have complete confidence in DMT and the info they provide about their products.

On a side note, DM, what's the difference in finish between the fine Sic and fine india? I was thinking of getting the large Sic C/F and a fine india, would it be the same or would it further refine the edge?
 
David Martin said:
I wish someone could give a definative answer on this; whether diamond stones last ? There seems to be a real divided opinion on this . I know they are pricey and if they don't last then they lack economy . DM
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David, the real answer lies with the individual user. If the user bears down on a diamond stone, he'll tear the diamonds out of the matrix and the stone will wear out quickly. If the user works with light pressure as is instructed by most of the manufacturers, the diamond stones will last a life time. I have some that are 30 years old and still going strong.


Stitchawl
 
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