Going to buy some metal for the first time

[RaiderJameson]

Okay. I wanted to start the new year off fresh bu purchasing some metal instead of using old leaf springs. (Which are fine but had a crack in one of my blade and want to have a controlled experiment by using classified metal). Currently in high school doing a metalworking course And getting my metal classification down. I looked it up on the web and found various results as to what the best metal was to use. I was thinking 80crv2 or 5160 but what do yall think is the best metal to use and the easiest to heat treat with limited equipment? Thanks in advance.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Excellent choices. Boh are good steels to work with.

 

[RaiderJameson]

What about 10 series steels like 1095 or others?

 

[Jcdelamater]

I've also had good results with 15N20, 8670 and 1084. What kind of heat treating setup do you have? I assume by limited equipment you have some kind of a small forge?

 

[RaiderJameson]

Have a three burner forge real nice. Limited equipment wasnt quite accurate just limited possibilities for a accurate quench and or tempering also no clue how to do a correct normalizing cycle. Have a bucket of parks 50 coming in, was using Atf.

I read online about the heat treat process for 5160 and 80crv2 for optimal hrc and toughness but i cant get that precise. Is there an easier method to quench than all of the timing and annealing?

You said 8670. According to a lot of graphs it is the best but is expensive right? Also unfarmiliar with 15n20.

 

[weo]

What about 10 series steels like 1095 or others?

The 10xx series are good choices as well. I'd choose 1080/1084 over 1095 as 1095 requires a hold time to get the most out of the steel (IIRC).

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

If I was asked to choose only three steels for forging by a new smith with a good forge it would be 1084, 80CrV, 5160 (in that order).

 

[Jcdelamater]

8670 is not all that expensive (I get steel from Alpha Knife Supply), comparable to cost for other carbon steels. 15N20 is generally similar (tough carbon steel). I've only done stock removal though, so I don't have any idea how those forge.

If you are looking for any heat treat info I'd point you to knife steel nerds, there is a wealth of information on there.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I second that recommendation. The book Knife Engineering by Dr. larrin Thomas is a book every knifemaker needs. His Knife Nerds site is full of valuable info.

 

[nmbarta]

It's already been said, but if you're doing your ht in a forge...your not going to find a better steel than 1084.

 

[DevinT]

Get a part time job and a side hustle, save some money, buy a good heat treating furnace and learn to heat treat.

Heat treating is way more important than steel choice.

We generally say blade steel not metal.

Enjoy the journey. I’ve been making knives for 45 years now and it never gets old.

Hoss

 

[RaiderJameson]

If I was asked to choose only three steels for forging by a new smith with a good forge it would be 1084, 80CrV, 5160 (in that order).

Awesome, thanks

8670 is not all that expensive (I get steel from Alpha Knife Supply), comparable to cost for other carbon steels. 15N20 is generally similar (tough carbon steel). I've only done stock removal though, so I don't have any idea how those forge.

If you are looking for any heat treat info I'd point you to knife steel nerds, there is a wealth of information on there.

I second that recommendation. The book Knife Engineering by Dr. larrin Thomas is a book every knifemaker needs. His Knife Nerds site is full of valuable info.

Saw that the other day, ill definitely look at it.

Get a part time job and a side hustle, save some money, buy a good heat treating furnace and learn to heat treat.

Heat treating is way more important than steel choice.

We generally say blade steel not metal.

Enjoy the journey. I’ve been making knives for 45 years now and it never gets old.

Hoss

Thanks Hoss. By the way what is the difference between a HT furnace and a forge?

 

[DevinT]

A forge is designed for rapid heating of steel mostly, and some other metals.

A furnace is designed for controlled heating, soaking or cooling. (ramp and/or soak)

A knife making furnace is used for normalizing, annealing, austenitizing, tempering etc…

A forge is not designed for control.

*Forged in Fire is not real knife making

Hoss

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

To expand on Devin's comments:
A forge has a heat source from some sort of combustion. It is most common today for it to be propane fired, but there are still plenty of folks using open coal/charcoal forges like old time blacksmiths. Propane forges can be controlled a bit, but you are still dealing with a very hot open flame. Coal/charcoal take a lot of skill to control and one slip in time or air blast can melt a blade.
A forge is used to heat metal in forging and for some basic thermal processes like normalization and grain refinement, but it isn't the best way to do heat treatment. Not that some steels won't work, just that you really don't know the exact temperature of the steel and holding the steel at that temperature for any amount of time is nearly impossible. *(see note below)

A HT oven/furnace/kiln is almost always electric. It has a controller that sets the temperature and holds it accurately at that point. Most also have program settings to set up a complete heat treatment protocol of temperatures, hold/soak times, ramps, etc. A suitable HT oven for normal length knives runs around $1000. It allows you to HT most any steel and do it exactly right with no guessing. The difference in blade quality will be noticeable.

* Years back I came up with the two-stage forge burner controller. It is a simple PID control running a solenoid and a by-pass valve to allow the flame to stay on at a lower level while the solenoid is closed. In a well-built blown forge that is properly adjusted, and used with a muffle pipe, it can maintain a pretty tight temperature for using the forge to do HT. It only works for carbon steels, but allows folks with only a blown forge to do more accurate HT. The schematics and build info are in the stickys and build info can be found in several threads by folks who built them. Depending on your scrounging abilities, the PID controller system can be built for around $100-200. A good blown forge can be built for $100-200, depending on your scrounging skills. There is a sticky on building forges and many threads and articles on making a forge, too.
You didn't state what type of three burner forge you have, but some venturi forges can be converted to blown pretty easily.

 

[RaiderJameson]

*Forged in Fire is not real knife making

Found that out after the first knife.

To expand on Devin's comments:
A forge has a heat source from some sort of combustion. It is most common today for it to be propane fired, but there are still plenty of folks using open coal/charcoal forges like old time blacksmiths. Propane forges can be controlled a bit, but you are still dealing with a very hot open flame. Coal/charcoal take a lot of skill to control and one slip in time or air blast can melt a blade.
A forge is used to heat metal in forging and for some basic thermal processes like normalization and grain refinement, but it isn't the best way to do heat treatment. Not that some steels won't work, just that you really don't know the exact temperature of the steel and holding the steel at that temperature for any amount of time is nearly impossible. *(see note below)

A HT oven/furnace/kiln is almost always electric. It has a controller that sets the temperature and holds it accurately at that point. Most also have program settings to set up a complete heat treatment protocol of temperatures, hold/soak times, ramps, etc. A suitable HT oven for normal length knives runs around $1000. It allows you to HT most any steel and do it exactly right with no guessing. The difference in blade quality will be noticeable.

* Years back I came up with the two-stage forge burner controller. It is a simple PID control running a solenoid and a by-pass valve to allow the flame to stay on at a lower level while the solenoid is closed. In a well-built blown forge that is properly adjusted, and used with a muffle pipe, it can maintain a pretty tight temperature for using the forge to do HT. It only works for carbon steels, but allows folks with only a blown forge to do more accurate HT. The schematics and build info are in the stickys and build info can be found in several threads by folks who built them. Depending on your scrounging abilities, the PID controller system can be built for around $100-200. A good blown forge can be built for $100-200, depending on your scrounging skills. There is a sticky on building forges and many threads and articles on making a forge, too.
You didn't state what type of three burner forge you have, but some venturi forges can be converted to blown pretty easily.

ok makes a lot of sense

You didn't state what type of three burner forge you have, but some venturi forges can be converted to blown pretty easily.

3 burner venturi

Thank yall very much for the info. Ill see what I can do.