Going to get some DMT stones/sharpeners - need some help

K

KC8QVO

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Apr 7, 2011
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So I think I am finally going to order some DMT stones. I see they make a bunch of them from big bench stones to folding pocket stones.

First order of business - stone flattening. I have an Edge Pro Apex and would like to flatten the stones. Since they aren't very big I don't need a huge plate to flatten them. Any idea on size? Also - what grit? My idea is to double-purpose the "flattening" stone as a stock remover when I need it, but I'd rather not have too coarse of a stone. I haven't used diamonds aside from "polishing" with 6, 3, and 1 micron sizes (diamond grit glued to glass blanks, got them from chefknivestogo.com a couple years ago and see they don't have them now, at least I couldn't find them to link to), so I am a bit unfamiliar with the "cutting" speed, but hear they do cut fast = may not need as coarse of grit? Give me some pointers and I'll see where the discussion goes.

Secondly - sharpening. I like the pocket sharpeners and folding sharpeners. I like to backpack, and do a lot of general traveling, so the folding sharpeners look like they would be a small/light option. Being double sided also is a plus. My camp knives are generally 1095 and I touch them up between 600 and 1000 grit, then polish on a paper wheel if I have to go that far. Otherwise, a quick run on the paper wheel is all I need and is quick/easy. I'd like to have something in the field with me that I can use to touch up the edges, or to do a quick repair of a more harshly damaged (chipped) edge (that may be a loaded term). Would a "fine" (their 600) grit be coarse enough? If so I'm looking at a "fine/extra fine" double sided. If the "fine" stones cut, based on pressure, and I can achieve at least the cutting ability of my 320 stone with more pressure and finish of the 600 with lighter pressure that would be exactly what I want. I am also looking at the 4" stone "kit" - extra coarse, coarse, fine, and extra fine in one pouch. That might be a good "travel" kit, then leave the double-sided pocket stone for the backpack.

On a side note - I have a Leatherman tool with a diamond file. Going back to blade repair if need-be, from what I have heard the diamond file on these tools is still quite "coarse". Throwing that in to the mix it may work for damaged blade repair in the field, then the regular sharpening could pick up with the DMT "fine" side, and refine on the "extra fine".
 
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For most small/medium-sized blades in 1095, a 'Fine' DMT or even an EF would likely be enough. If you're anticipating having to completely re-bevel a large/thick blade, such as a fixed blade that's made in 1/8" or thicker stock, then a Coarse or XC may be better; especially in a pocket-sized hone. I actually prefer a Fine/EF for setting bevels on pocket-sized traditional folders in 1095 or low-alloy stainless (think 420HC, 440A & similar); I use DMT's 'credit card' hones for this, in Fine/EF. These hones will also leave great working edges, with a minimum of follow-up on finer grits (aside from stropping, according to preference). With the larger/thicker blades, very heavy metal removal will benefit most from a larger surface area hone, which makes a bigger difference in working speed. If relying on a pocket-sized hone for these tasks, a coarser grit would at least make some difference. The more surface area you have to work with, the less of a need for very coarse grit on low-wear steels like 1095. A bench-sized C/F DMT can handle these pretty easily.

Regarding the diamond file on your Leatherman, that's something of a question mark for me. Very small surface area to work with, so it may or may not be useful for repairing a damaged edge. I'd suggest experimenting with that at your leisure while at home, before having to rely upon it in the field, later on. Some 'diamond files' on multi-tools may not be nearly as effective; I don't know if the mfrs. always have knife-edge repair in mind, when including these in their tools.

As to your other question(s) regarding flattening your EP hones, I don't have an EP. But, in general, a coarser diamond plate (XC/XXC) is often more highly recommended for tasks like this, to minimize the chance of ending up with hones that are much finer than original. Finer diamond plates will often radically change the cutting performance of hones flattened with them, and there's also a greater chance of damaging a finer diamond plate in the process. But, having said that, I'll defer to some of the other EP users here who've flattened their hones in a similar manner. Hopefully they'll chime in.


David
 
So are there any more comments, thoughts, opinions on the grit/size for flattening the EP stones? Also, if anyone can speak any more to the other topics I brought up that would be great. There is a wealth of knowledge here.
 
DMT
I use the Aligner jig, with stones from E Course thru to E Fine ($70) for all the stones
I use the E Course to rebevel D2 and go thru the grits to E Fine
I use E Fine for touch ups for any blade
And then strop on leather with white compound
 
I own the DMT Aligner with C/F/EF, so I have the 4in duo-sharp stones. For my softer steels such as the ones you find on SAK's, opinels XC90, and some of the unnamed carbon steel in my traditional knives I just use the F/EF the coarse grit just eats through it like a hot knife through butter. The fine will still go through it quite fast but it's bearable and I find that the fine grit leaves a nice somewhat toothy edge which is a really nice middle ground between the C/EF which I prefer a lot more over my EF edges.

Personally if I were you and wanted versatility in your portable setup I go with the DMT credit card hones in C/F/EF and toss them in an Altoids tin and maybe make a strop to go with it too. Though for a hand held dual sided sharpener I personally go with a C/F just because it's far more versatile, the coarse grit is one of those you may not need it often but when you do your glade you have it. If you want a more refined edge than that I wrap a piece of wet/dry sandpaper around it to get that more refined grit.

And you don't want to use pressure with diamond stones, just use the weight of the blade itself if not less than that. If you start using more pressure you run the risk of ripping diamonds out of the stone. Just keep in mind when you first get these stones there is a break in period in which they will be rough and cut extremely aggressively but after awhile it will smooth out.
 
I already have an Edge Pro system (guided sharpening), with all the stones and a lot of accessories so I will stick to that for my guided system. My use for the DMT's will be solely manual sharpening and stone flattening.

From what everyone has said the DMT's cut quick so I may want to go even to an EEF for general sharpening/edge refinement.

The size of blades I'll be using the DMT's with are under 4", so that will give you some idea of what I'm up to. When I manually sharpen my EDC blade (Bark River Bravo Necker I in 3V, about 2"-2.5") I turn the EP stones upside down on a table with non-slip mat underneath to hold in place. The stones are 1x6" and I have plenty of stroke for what I am doing. Going off of that I think I can get by with the 4" DMT's for regular use, then in a pinch I could make do with something smaller in the field. The folders are 1/3" longer (4.33"), but 1/8" narrower so that may be my best option for my backpack really. Since the stones cut quick a fine/extra fine might be just the trick - even for light edge repair because cutting a chip out is all about moving enough material to get the edge back past the chip, enough to bring a burr up, regardless of the finish.

I see DMT makes double sided Dia-Sharp stones in 6"x2" so I ordered one of the extra-coarse/coarse stones. That will be the most versatile. I don't think having the diamond stone overlapping the EP whetstones is too important so my guess is that the 6" will be sufficient for my purposes. With the two grit sizes I have options. The chefknivestogo site shows the coarse being recommended for "higher grit whetsones", whereas the extra-coarse and extra-extra-coarse aren't rated, other than being good for stone flattening.

I also ordered the full kit of 4" stones, a fine/extra-fine folder, and an extra-extra-fine 4" to complement the kit.

I'll post back when I get a chance to run a few knifes through them. I realize there is a "break in" period to the stones so my guess is I won't get through that for a long time, but at least a quick overview of the functionality might help others in their quests for similar uses too.
 
I found the break in period for my DMT C/F/EF went by somewhat quickly as I was practicing sharpening with them. Initial break in was a few hours between all of them, than it's slowly been getting more and more broken in as time goes by. Though I heard the EEF was a pain to break in though so that one may take some time. Just a heads up at first the DMT's probably won't impress you much unless you want to remove a lot of steel very fast, but once it's broken in it starts to shine.

One thing I do with my DMT's is I use water with a drop of soap, I actually have an old hand sanitizer bottle which was empty so I cleaned it out and put the water and a drop of dish soap in it so I can put a few drops of water on the stone when I use it. I also keep a toothbrush handy to clean off the stone while in use and towel to dry off the stone. When I am done and I don't feel like going to the sink to clean it or putting it in the ultrasonic I put a few drops of the water/soap on it and scrub it clean with the brush and dry it off. If you prefer using it dry, just use the brush to keep it clean while your using it.
 
I have the double sided pocket stones and they work great. I too backpack and hunt, they are exceptionally light and portable.

As far as flattening and evening out another stone, I read on another post that you shouldn't use DMT stones to flatten.
 
Did you get the dia-sharp series (uninterrupted) or the corrugated ones? I use 6" dia-sharp's C-EF and then switch over to spyderco ceramic stones from there but I'm thinking about adding an EEF DMT for an in-between from the spyderco F to the UF. I have read so many people saying they've had issues with their EEF's never breaking in so I'm a little hesitant. I saw they finally released 4" dia-sharp's (uninterrupted surface) so I might finally give it a try.
 
I got the 6" dia-sharp double sided in c/ec, model D6CX. The rest are the polkadot patterns including the eef. Im not too worried about the break-in. I will finish strop on balsa/1u diamond spray. Ill just be careful of the material removal.
 
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I got my DMT order in today and did a quick run through on my 3V EDC blade.

I will say that these stones cut very fast, as was expected. However, what was unexpected was how "toothy" of an edge the DMT's leave - even at EEF.

When I opened up the stones I compared the diamond file on my Leatherman to the double sided C/EC DMT block. By looks and feel the Leatherman file is about what the Coarse side is, maybe just a hair rougher, but not close to the EC side - more fine.

I started my 3V blade on the Fine side of the folding sharpener. Then I went to the EF side. I wasn't too happy with the edge so I went to the EEF stone. That is a more typical edge for me. After that I stropped on 1 micron spray/balsa backing. The edge is still a bit "rougher" and not quite as refined as I'd like.

I will work on my technique here and see if I can dial it in better. I will say, though, that the edge is a lot more "sticky" than I've ever had it before - sort of like the "sticky'ness" I can get my 1095 blades to, just not quite as refined yet.
 
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