Good heavy duty chopping workhorse: Khuks vs 'traditional' styles

M

Mindz_I

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Nov 6, 2002
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Somewhat spoilt for choice in this field I thought it best to post here and gauge people's opinions.

I'm interested in purchasing a large knife that will predominandly be used for chopping, but also for some lighter guage duties during my time in the outdoors (shaping tent stakes from cut wood, cutting rope etc).

The knife will be accompanied by a Spyderco Bill Moran Featherweight (Drop-Point) so finer tasks (food prep etc) should not for the most part be a major issue (though as an after thought would be nice).

Self-defence is not something I would really take into account when purchasing the knife, but yet again, should one hold benifits over another it would certainly not bee seen as a disadvantage.

Presently the Spyderco is accompanied by a rather lightweight Gerber Camp axe, which excels at chopping and at a push can be used to work with wood, however I'm in the mood for something more 'knife-like' shall we say :D

So far several items have caught my attention but the three which stand out are;
- HI Ang Khola (15" being a likley choice)
- SRKW Camp-Tramp
- SRKW Battle Rat

Out of the items listed above the knife i'd personally feel most comfortable (by that read most familiar) with would be the Camp-Tramp, however I can't help but feel I'd be loosing out on an awful lot of chopping power with the short size and weight.

Furthermore, I was curious as to the comparative benifits of a khukuri (shape, design and ergonomics) over a tranditional bowie-esq shape of the swamprat knives?

Lastly would anyone know if it is possible to retrofit HI khuk's with a more modern grip materials, without excessive expense?

Thanks kindly for any help or advice.

BTW,
Please feel free to reccomend alternatives but I'd like to specify my upper limit is the price of the Battle rat ($150)
 
All are very good choices--Swamp Rat and Himalayan Imports are two of my favorite outfits; I own several pieces from both and recommend them with equal enthusiasm.

As far as my opinion, the khukuries are dedicated choppers. Within the realm of chopping, they'll outstrip the Rats, as they're more massive at the spine and still taper to thin edges. Their curved blades also aid in this, as they add a better shearing effect to your swing. Chopping effectively with a khuk takes a little practice, but once mastered they are real workhorses. Their utility in other cutting applications is somewhat limited. It's not that you can't do other cutting with them, but it's not what they excell at. They are not fully hardened along their entire edge, but only in the "sweet spot" between the point and the main recurve--to give them resistance to the shock that they undergo in chopping--so their edge holding in general cutting tasks is not the best. Also, the recurve is difficult for controlled cutting, and if you move far enough out on the blade so that you're on the straight section, you're dealing with a pretty heavy blade to work with at length. Once again, it WILL work, and people of Nepal have been working with khukuries for just about all tasks for a long, long time. But, it's not necessarily optimal for these tasks.

As for switching material out on a khuk's handle, it would be possible, but you'd have to do it. If you should decide to go the way of a khukuri, drop by the HI forum and do a search for "replace handle" "fix buttcap" etc, and you'll find many threads on disassembling them. You'd have to make your own replacement handle, unless you could talk a custom maker into doing one for you. If you don't find threads that answer your questions, just post this question over there--though be warned that you're going to get some lecturing about the fact that you don't NEED modern handle materials. I can tell you this because I just about launched into that lecture myself here, and am only barely restraining myself. ;)

The Camp Tramp will be the chopper lightweight of the three, but that's to be expected with it being the smallest. It is still very capable in this task, as it is one of the most blade-heavy knives in its size range I've ever used. In this respect, it'll out-chop it's more expensive counterpart, the Busse Steel Heart, as the latter is more centrally balanced, due to the extra weight of that knife's fully exposed tang. And before anyone asks, no I'm NOT selling my Steel Heart! The Camp Tramp is a very useable and carryable size, and I like it very much. The Battle Rat will out-power it, of course, adding a little size and giving up a little portability. The choils on both blades allow you to choke up for finer cutting work, effectively shortening your blades when you want more control.

All are good choices. I hesitate to pick a favorite, not merely out of loyalty to the two companies, but also because I've done a lot of work with both products and have been impressed. Sorry if I'm too ambiguous, but that's what you get when you ask for opinions between all high-quality tools. :)
 
I'll admit that I'm biased in this arena, since my love of khuks is well known, but I honestly do think that when you're talking big knives the khukuri is one of the most powerful choppers available. Part of it is due to the balance; I'm not aware of any traditional western style knife that has such a pronounced forward balance. This allows the considerable weight of the blade to do most of the work while chopping. Chopping with traditional straight blades tends to wear out my wrist, as they require a slight snap just before impact to chop effectively. And even with that snap they are nowhere near as efficient as the curved blade of a khuk. That curvature is another aspect of the khuks design that helps it bite in so well. I also find it to be an advantage while cutting brush.

So if you're primary concern is chopping and you already have a medium sized backup knife, I honestly feel you'll be best served by a khukuri. As to replacing the handle materials, I can't help you much there. I'm sure there are some guys on the Shop Talk forum who could help you out for a reasonable price. I would give the original handle a chance first though; they seem strange at first but have a way of growing on you. One thing that normally is sub-par on most khukuris, even those from Himalayan Imports, is the sheath. They get the job done but aren't the most efficient or elegant design available. Terry Sisco does excellent work on sheaths, I had a chance to handle some of his work about a month ago at a khukuri nut gathering in Ohio and was very impressed. Pendentive here on the forums also has a great tutorial on how to make your own if you're so inclined. In any event you should be able to get a khukuri and an excellent sheath for well under $150, and it will assuredly serve you well. Stop in at the HI forum if you want any more information, they're a very friendly and knowledgeable group. Best of luck with your search.
 
Cheers guys,

On the khuks;

The handle question was more a curiosity than a requirement I must admit, but the sheath is something I firmly intend to change, most likley to a cordura / kydex alternative. At least something a little more friendly to being lashed to a pack / webbing, with a little more utility at a lighter weight.


Anyway, please keep the replies coming (the more the merrier as they say) :)
 
The ability to chop depends on the weight. I'm a kukri fan and my 24 Oz chops heavier stuff than my 18 Oz ,trees have fallen to the heavier one.The shape of the kukri makes it a very efficient chopper . My suggestion however would be a heavy kukri and a smaller all purpose knife such as a CS Master Hunter .The smaller knife certainly does the smaller jobs easier; whittling tent pegs, cutting up food etc.....I did replace the grips but to reshape them using hard maple rather than use modern materials.
 
From the requirements listed, your choice is simple, HI all the way. They will outchop the other two easily. Also, depending on your physical skills, khuks can do some fairly fine work also. I've made fuzz sticks with an 18" AK, for example. I wouldn't worry a whole lot about the handle on the khuks, they work fine. As RR mentioned previously, the sheath is where you will want to sink some extra money to meet your needs
 
Seems a khuk is where the money should ride.

I'm pretty much set on an AK, but what size would guys reccomend as a good trade off between chopping ability and lugability?
 
I pretty much have to agree with Warren (and others) here. For a dedicated chopper, khuk pretty much has it. More tasks than that, I'd go with the Battle Rat then the Camp Tramp, in that order for chopping. For other chores, I like the CT, but even the bigger knives seem to get smaller as you use them a lot. It's what you get used to I guess. My BR seemed huge when I first got it. Now, 2 years later, I can do more fine tasks with it that I wouldn't even attempt with it before.

Rob
 
A 15" AK is no slouch for chopping, but my personal favorite compromise blade is the 16.5" WWII. Mine was made by Kumar and has a very lively feel, is relatively light yet it will chop as well or better than the AK.
 
I took a gander at the 16.5" model and while it does look excellent for the task it appears to be no heavier than the 15" Ang Khola.

With this in mind I'm a little concerned that while I'd gain controlability, leverage and useability to clear brush I might loose some heft and chopp-ability.

Anyone care to comment?
 
Consider a small Gransfors Hatchet-I replaced my Camp Tramp with one. 1lb, easily carried in pack and it's the ultimate chopper.
 
Mindz_I,

Although it's going the opposite direction, price-wise, of the 15" Ang Khola, you may want to check out the Chiruwa Ang Khola ($145USD). Full tang and best guarantee on the market.
 
Get yourself one of those Cold Steel Ghurka kukris with the 5/16" thick Carbon V blades. I have one, and it's hard to imagine a better chopper for the money.
 
I'd been looking at the Chiruwa however one review stated the full-flat tang construction wasn't the most vibration friendly design and since I'm intending on using this predominantly for chopping that was a major concern.

I think in my mind I'm pretty much settled on the 15" AK with a horn handle, though I have just a few more khuk specific questions to ask over at the HI forum :)

Thanks for everyones input.
 
Seems to be pretty good arguement for the Khuks.

edited: Did not see the price limit. Sorry about that.
 
I have one of the Ghurka khukuries from Cold Steel. Very sharp and high quality. Does not compare to HI in similar lengths as a chopper. HI has thicker spines, thinner edges, and are more beveled instead of flat ground, which makes them bind less. The handles are also much more comfortable than Cold Steel's--I don't care how tough your hands are, horn/wood feels better than kraton after more than 10 minutes of work, and the handle shape itself makes it easy to hold onto. Almost every HI I've had has been a special deal of the day, and so I've only paid more than $100.00 for two of them. Most have been in the $70-80 range.

This is not a "Cold Steel sucks" post. Like I said, it's a fairly high quality blade. It's just not in the same class as HI as a chopper. Now, the lighter models from them make awesome brush clearers.
 
To echo what timpani said....HI sells custom, handmade khukuris for the same price as CS's factory made. Just depends on what floats your boat. ;)

Stick to the 15" size. That's a heckuvalotta knife for the money. the BAS is great - sounds like just what you need. Go for the 15"+ AKs only if you think you'll need the extra "beef" and don't plan on belt-carrying it.

I've been known to put handles on khuks now and then.....but honestly, I'd recommend keeping the one that comes on it. Maybe, you could rough it up, or checker it. But they're pretty dang good handles for the $$.
 
I used to have a Cold Steel Kukri 5/16" thick version and it was a handsome kinfe to look at and show around, but there are 2 problems:

1. The kraton grip is really abrasive on your hands unless you wear gloves

2. The flat V grind causes the blade to bind (ie get stuck in the wood) on a hard chop

HI kukris (and well made choppers / axes) have convex geometry which greatly reduce binding.

I've got a 18" WWII and it chops like crazy, just depends on how much weight you want to lug around!
 
With this in mind I'm a little concerned that while I'd gain controlability, leverage and useability to clear brush I might loose some heft and chopp-ability.
Click to expand...

I haven't found that to be the case, but I haven't done a side by side analysis with a 15" Ang Khola so I can't say for sure. Honestly I feel the difference in chopping strength would be negligible, as the extra length of the WWII helps to offset it's weight disadvantage (proportionally). Slap me if that last bit made no sense.

I'd been looking at the Chiruwa however one review stated the full-flat tang construction wasn't the most vibration friendly design and since I'm intending on using this predominantly for chopping that was a major concern.
Click to expand...

While I have seen the same statement and initially avoided chiruwa tangs for the same reason, in a side by side comparison of the same model I found the opposite to be true. The standard tang vibrated so badly it numbed my pinky finger while the chiruwa tang was the most comfortable I had (and have still) ever used. I seem to be in the minority with this opinion, but still I thought I'd mention it. I'm sure whichever one you choose will work well for you; we like to say on the HI forum that the khuks sometimes seem to choose their owners. I think there's a bit of truth to that. :cool:
 
I'd like to add some more thoughts.

First off, what are you chopping? Are you talking about chopping thru hardwood logs a foot in diameter or something? Because if that's what you want to do, the kukri will indeed be better than a lighter knife of similar size. However, a chainsaw would work even better yet. I hate to point out the obvious there, but even if you want to stick with a blade, a full size two handed double bitted axe would still be better.

However, if you're talking about clearing smaller trees (say, 4" diameter and smaller brush) then a lighter blade would serve you better. The kukri's weight will make it slower, and will take a more solid target to make use of its momentum. Whereas the lighter blade gets its power from speed, and does can easily deal with flimsy branches and brush.

Also, since I'm not intimately familiar with HI's product line, and I'm too lazy to check, were you talking about a kukri with a 15" blade, or 15" overall? I was just gonna say, I personally think a 15"-18" blade (20-24 inches overall length) would be about perfect. It gives ya plenty of reach, and it gets lots of cutting power from the extra speed, and thus does not need to be as heavy.
 
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