Good Knives, Bad Knives, Sharp Knives, Dull Knives

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Sep 5, 2005
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We're fortunate enough, most of us, to live in a time and a place where good knives are available for
almost nothing, great knives available for bargain prices and superb knives available to even the most
economically challenged. That said, we've also become very discriminating in what we buy, and that's
as it should be. Why buy a crummy knife when almost anyone can afford a decent knife?

The truth is, however, that even the many of the el cheapo knives for ten to twelve bucks would be
lifesavers in situations where there were no other knives or tools available. Many of them are strong
and can be socked away where owners need not worry about them. Some, in extreme emergency
situatons, would be even more valuable than a five-hundred dollar Sebenza. However nice Sebenzas
may be, they make poor weapons, poor camping tools and only so-so survival tools.

About a year ago, I bought a cheap $13 Delta Force Tanto, just to see what kind of a knife could
be had for well under twenty bucks. It did not disappoint. I turned my nose up at it, but over the
next few months, I found it to be an
extremely effective yard knife. It dug up weeds, chopped up and cleared vegetation, cut branches
and even served as a pry bar. Sharpening took only a few swipes of a course stone and the plastic
grips have not chipped, cracked or loosened. The knife would cut twine, weeds and open bags of
fertilizer with nary a commplaint. Plus, the knife was substantially lighter than the S&W Homeland
Security Tanto
, which was the knife it was copied from and which is an excellent bargain
for thirty dollars, delivered.

The blade also is quite rust resistant, though, even rusty, it could serve in an extreme emergency.

It's great that we afford better, but sometimes I think we underrate the lower tier knives that
seem to have a legitimate place in the knife world.

FRC502CA.jpg
SWCKSURC.jpg


The Frost (top) is not nearly as good as the S&W knife it was copied
from, but it performs suprisingly well under duress. Both of these
are bargains, even the oft-maligned S&W.


.
 
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Yeah! There is a lot of truth in this thread. We are all searching for that perfect knife. However, in the end, it is the one that you have and that could be a cheapo or even a kitchen knife.

It is the skill and knowledge that you bring which is more important.

Thanks for the reminder
 
Whether or not you or anyone prefer cheap knives is of course your own decision to make, and I'm not trying to convince anyone one way or the other. However, a lot of of the post is not at all logically sound. I want to address these parts.

The truth is, however, that even the many of the el cheapo knives for ten to twelve bucks would be
lifesavers in situations where there were no other knives or tools available.

... yes. Having a tool... would indeed be a lifesavers in situations where there were no other tools available. Having a $3 bar of mild steel can be a lifesaver vs not having a $3 bar of mild steel. This in itself doesn't reflect on how good a tool a bar of mild steel can be, just that it's better than no bar. I don't see why we need to be told this. As knife lovers, I don't see that most of us would have problems having a tool available.

Many of them are strong
and can be socked away where owners need not worry about them.

Mild steel bars are also strong, stronger than any knife, and can also be socked away where owners need not worry about them.

Some, in extreme emergency
situatons, would be even more valuable than a five-hundred dollar Sebenza. However nice Sebenzas
may be, they make poor weapons, poor camping tools and only so-so survival tools.

You may base your knife purchases on extreme emergency situations. Others might base it on daily utility. And I beg to differ on Sebenza's suitability as a camping tool. Your single camping style, done within your single climate, is hardly a good judge of the suitability of the Sebenza in camping with anyone everywhere else in the world.

It's great that we afford better, but sometimes I think we underrate the lower tier knives that
seem to have a legitimate place in the knife world.

I very much agree with that statement. That being said, your claim that the forum turn up its nose at $10 knives kind of breaks completely when you consider the popularity of the Mora. People here DO appreciate the place of inexpensive, high performing knives.

The forum, however, does have a thing against inexpensive replicas or replicas of replicas, because even when they perform well (which is not often the case):
a) Purchasing them lines the pockets of those who counterfeit knives
b) they are usually made to appeal to the mall ninja crowd, which gives terribly bad impressions of the knife community.

Why buy $15 pieces of tactical sharpened prybar and support a mall-ninja counterfeiter when you can have a high-performing Mora at $10, a Tramontina machete at $6, or Old Hickory chopper at $8?
 
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I very much agree with that statement. That being said, your claim that the forum turn up its nose at $10 knives kind of breaks completely when you consider the popularity of the Mora. People here DO appreciate the place of inexpensive, high performing knives.

Why buy $15 pieces of tactical sharpened prybar and support a mall-ninja counterfeiter when you can have a high-performing Mora at $10, a Tramontina machete at $6, or Old Hickory chopper at $8?

The Mora performs well for it's price point, but calling it high performance is a stretch. I have many knives that perform much, much better. The Tramontina is a good deal, have several, the Old Hickory's, IMO, are too light to be good choppers, and their steel is too soft to hold an edge for a long time. I have several of them also.
 
The Mora performs well for it's price point, but calling it high performance is a stretch. I have many knives that perform much, much better. .


hi if you dont mind, would like to know what knives would it be and what task were you performing that the mora performance was lacking. always looking for that perfect knife.
 
The forum, however, does have a thing against inexpensive replicas or replicas of replicas, because even when they perform well (which is not often the case):
a) Purchasing them lines the pockets of those who counterfeit knives

No. A counterfeit is more than a copy. It's a misrepresentation. I can't recall anyone here talking about counterfeits.

b) they are usually made to appeal to the mall ninja crowd, which gives terribly bad impressions of the knife community.

Anybody who bothers to gab about knives on the internet has a inner mall ninja just dying to get out. Furthermore, "mall ninjas" are a legitimate market. That some of the wares aimed at that market turn out to be decent knives is a good thing for everyone, not just the mall ninjas. In the end, who cares if a good knife appeals to a mall ninja? A good knife is a good knife regardless.

Why buy $15 pieces of tactical sharpened prybar and support a mall-ninja counterfeiter when you can have a high-performing Mora at $10, a Tramontina machete at $6, or Old Hickory chopper at $8?

Because Mora and Tramontina and Old Hickory don't offer tactical sharpened prybars at any price.
 
Why reference the Sebenza in a thread that appears to be about inexpensive but still useful fixed blade knives?
 
hi if you dont mind, would like to know what knives would it be and what task were you performing that the mora performance was lacking. always looking for that perfect knife.

Absolutely! I'll show you the knives, then talk about the tasks. Here are a few:

Swamp Rat Bandicoot (SR101 steel), thinned out by me:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010473.jpg

A Queen 4180 Hunter in D2. I thinned it out too much, and you can see the resultant damage. I took the damage out in about 5 minutes on a DMT blue stone:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/queen_4180.jpg

Vic Farmer (no pic)

CS Trailguide:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010017.jpg

Spyderco Calypso Jr. in ZDP 189 thinned out by Tom Krein:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/caly_thinned.jpg

Dozier Delta Traveller in D2 and Scott Gossman Nessmuk in O1:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010026.jpg

And my real sleepers, 2 handmade knives from a friend in M2 HSS:
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010024-1.jpg

The Dozier is a high hollow grind in D2. It excels in cutting fibrous and abrasive materials, as well as critters. It holds it's edge a long time, and due to the grind, doesn't bind very easily.

The Queen is one of the best cardboard cutter I've seen in a long time. The D2 holds the edge well, the full flat grind has a high cutting efficiency, as well as a low angle. I recently tested the Vic Farmer against the Mora, and the flat grind excelled at cutting food and binding media, where the Mora with it's relatively thick grind was binding all the time.

The Bandicoot, again, has a high flat grind. It excels in wood when I polish the edge. Having a somewhat thicker spine gives it great lateral strength. Same comments about the CS Trailguide. It is a full flat grind in Carbon V, and has good strength as well as holding a good edge cutting wood and abrasive materials.

The Spyderco in ZDP is a cutting demon, thanks to Tom Krein. It will hold an edge even longer than the Queen in cardboard, which is *really* saying something. If you can respect a thin edge, this is probably the ultimate, especially for an EDC.

The last 2 no-name knives are 0.1 inch thick at the spine, full flat grind. I can completely reset the edge in 5 strokes on a DMT stone. They run neck and neck with the Spyderco in edge holding due to their high hardness (66 HRC). While they took some time for my friend to grind, their total cost was under $5 for materials. They excel in critters, cardboard, and fibrous materials.

Like I said, the Mora is fine for it's price point. I feel that all of the above knives will substantial out-cut the Mora in the media that I've described. I still, however, use the Mora in the garden, and often carry it as backup in the woods, due to it being light. I don't like it's saber grind, I think that it's way too thick and binding (the grind, not the blade), just as a general comment. While spending more than $10 on a knife is no guarantee of performance, I don't subscribe to the philosophy that more expensive knives don't cut as well as a Mora - these do! Lots of people, however, like Moras, and that's fine with me. Please note that a lot of these knives, while more expensive than the Mora, aren't real expensive knives.

Ok, one more. Here is my Phil Wilson in CPM 10V at 64.5 HRC. This knive excels at slicing in fibrous and abrasive media. It beats everything in my collection hands down. It's very thin, and you have to be careful, but if you want the ultimate, I think this is it (those "dings" in the edge are due to my camera, there aren't any in real life):

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010005-1.jpg

P.S. As you can see from most of these pictures, no safe queens here! They ALL get used, and that gives them character! Use what you like!
 
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Wow thanks for the pics and sharing. Theres many knife steel that i have not tried. I couldnt bear to reprofile an expensive blade. Been wanting to get a D2 and a 90v
Do you think that a mora if repofiled thinner and a flat grind would cut better than what it is now? You reprofiled other knife was wondering if you did to a mora. I do not use it in the kitchen because its too thick. thanks for sharing your views oncemore. :)
 
I think a flat ground Mora would be awesome, but then it would be a small puuko, wouldn't it? I think so. Plus, the blade material might be a little thin, you might want something with a little thicker spine. Of course, if you moved the grind up to 2/3 to the spine, instead of 1/3 such as the Frosts, then it might be great also.

D2 is awesome, and the Queens are around $40, IIRC. Not too bad.
 
The Mora performs well for it's price point, but calling it high performance is a stretch. I have many knives that perform much, much better.

The Tramontina is a good deal, have several, the Old Hickory's, IMO, are too light to be good choppers, and their steel is too soft to hold an edge for a long time. I have several of them also.

Yes, I am full aware of the performance benefits of a thin-stock, full flat ground knife over the relatively simple scandi grind. Less binding in thick material, more resistant to edge chipping/rolling due to more obtuse edge angle, etc.

But I was addressing inexpensive knives, within a thread concerning inexpensive knives, so that was in fact the proper context for my comments.

I think a flat ground Mora would be awesome, but then it would be a small puuko, wouldn't it?

Not really, puukkos would still be Scandi ground. It'll still retain the weakness disadvantage of the edge bevel only being 8 degrees or so.
 
Anybody who bothers to gab about knives on the internet has a inner mall ninja just dying to get out.

I have to disagree - my father collected custom and factory knives since before I was born; I grew with an idea of the tool-as-art and my father always told me: never the leave the house without a good knife in your pocket. I've been carrying knives since I was 12 and I'm 43 now.

That said, for me knives are like porn. I'll be honest. I get the Knife Annuals and the mags so I can stare at the pictures. I roam the custom knife web sites because I love to look at the knives. And because I like to look at them and own them, collect them and use them, sharpen and repair them, I also like to chat with other knife nuts about them.
 
would be even more valuable than a five-hundred dollar Sebenza. However nice Sebenzas
may be, they make poor weapons, poor camping tools and only so-so survival tools.

Another good topic that I agree with, well with all but the above quote!:D
 
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