Good way to sharpen kitchen knives

myright

myright

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
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Hey fellas - I've gotten ok at sharpening my knives at 30-40 degrees using my Sharpmaker and have been getting better using my sharpening wheels, but I just recently but a nice Shun for the kitchen and don't really want to sharpen it on the wheels and need something with a smaller angle than the Sharpmaker.

My question to use guys/gals is - What can I use to sharpen my kitchen knives? I've looked at stones, they are pretty darn expensive so I'd like to use that as a last resort. Is there any other method you guys know of to put a good 15-20 degree angle on my kitchen knives?

I'm interested in hearing all feedback.

How does something like this look:
http://www.thekitchenstore.com/chchexsh.html

Or how about this (one of the cheaper stones I found)

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=198400&CCAID=FROOGLE198400

thanks in advance
 
For less than the gadget and waterstone your showing at those sites you can get 2 decent Norton stones 8X2" twin grit AO or SC.Which work great on the knife your speaking.DM
 
why dont you want to use the wheels? try using just the buffing wheel to maintain the edge.
 
You could try the King waterstones, they aren't of the highest quality but they are cheap and they work fine, a 300grit, 1000grit and 6000-8000grit stone will be great for kitchen use. A 300grit stone would be used to fix a damaged edge, 1000 for removing the scratches and general touchups, and the 6000-8000stone would be used for the final polish.

What sharpening wheels are you talking about?(paper wheels, buffing wheel, grinding wheel?)
 
Myright,

Which Shun do you have? The ones I have seen (other then the professional line of single bevel knives) looked like they came with convex edges from a belt grinder. Does yours have a convex edge or a V grind? If convex, I would consider using the mouse pad/sandpaper method for convex sharpening followed by a loaded leather strop. This is also very cheap and does an unbeatable job for convex edges.

They will work fine with a V grind or convex edge but I think the core steel on those knives is pretty hard and brittle and it chips easily when they get that thin. I have seen Shun Chef's knives behind glass at the store that were chipped (badly) from rough handling and abuse in the store. They would bring out a cutting board and a potato on request for customers to try out the Shun's. IMO, the convex edge works better with the more acute bevel angles they use, and you want, on those knives. The convex edge is stronger. I have some MAC's and if I get the bevel down to around 10° or 12° my wife always puts little micro chips in the edge. With a convex grind that doesn’t happen and the edge last a lot longer. Maybe they would be OK at 15°with a V grind but I like the way they cut at the thin angle like a laser. I think she smacks the cutting board, hits it and twists, or something?

Read the tutorial by Bark River Knives here (HTML): http://www.barkriverknives.com/convex.htm

Or in PDF form here: http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/convex.pdf

Watch the videos here: http://www.knivesshipfree.com/p4/Sharpening-Videos/pages.html

Whether you sharpen with a V grind or convex the Shuns are certainly worthy of a final stropping with diamond spray or green chromium oxide to make them razor sharp. They come sharp but a final stropping will greatly improve the factor edge even on a new knife. Even if sharpened with a V bevel, stropping leaves a little micro convex edge. Stropping is a great way to maintain sharpness on a Shun. Use it instead of a steel or ceramic steel. The ceramic steel is crude in comparison. Usually you can strop several times (or indefinitely if you never damage them and keep sharp) before you need to go back to stones or sandpaper. Those knives will stay sharp a long time and don’t need much maintenance if they don’t get abused. The first thing I would do is buy or make a strop and get some stropping compound.

Gary
 
richard j said:
why dont you want to use the wheels? try using just the buffing wheel to maintain the edge.
Click to expand...

Hey - you still have my cell # right? Can you call me tomorrow around 9am EST? I'd like to discuss it with you.
 
gary jp4 said:
Myright,

Which Shun do you have? The ones I have seen (other then the professional line of single bevel knives) looked like they came with convex edges from a belt grinder. Does yours have a convex edge or a V grind? If convex, I would consider using the mouse pad/sandpaper method for convex sharpening followed by a loaded leather strop. This is also very cheap and does an unbeatable job for convex edges.

They will work fine with a V grind or convex edge but I think the core steel on those knives is pretty hard and brittle and it chips easily when they get that thin. I have seen Shun Chef's knives behind glass at the store that were chipped (badly) from rough handling and abuse in the store. They would bring out a cutting board and a potato on request for customers to try out the Shun's. IMO, the convex edge works better with the more acute bevel angles they use, and you want, on those knives. The convex edge is stronger. I have some MAC's and if I get the bevel down to around 10° or 12° my wife always puts little micro chips in the edge. With a convex grind that doesn’t happen and the edge last a lot longer. Maybe they would be OK at 15°with a V grind but I like the way they cut at the thin angle like a laser. I think she smacks the cutting board, hits it and twists, or something?

Read the tutorial by Bark River Knives here (HTML): http://www.barkriverknives.com/convex.htm

Or in PDF form here: http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/convex.pdf

Watch the videos here: http://www.knivesshipfree.com/p4/Sharpening-Videos/pages.html

Whether you sharpen with a V grind or convex the Shuns are certainly worthy of a final stropping with diamond spray or green chromium oxide to make them razor sharp. They come sharp but a final stropping will greatly improve the factor edge even on a new knife. Even if sharpened with a V bevel, stropping leaves a little micro convex edge. Stropping is a great way to maintain sharpness on a Shun. Use it instead of a steel or ceramic steel. The ceramic steel is crude in comparison. Usually you can strop several times (or indefinitely if you never damage them and keep sharp) before you need to go back to stones or sandpaper. Those knives will stay sharp a long time and don’t need much maintenance if they don’t get abused. The first thing I would do is buy or make a strop and get some stropping compound.

Gary
Click to expand...

Hey Gary - Thanks for the response. Here's the Shun I have:

http://www.kershawknives.com/productdetails.php?id=253&brand=shun

I've also got a few Henckels in the drawer and some older knives from my Grandfather's butcher shop. I'm most concerned with keeping an edge on that Shun since it's my go to knife now.

Got any good links to making a strop?

You are right - that knife is holding an edge very well. I've yet to sharpen it and have had it a few months, but I've also not used it as much. I just have been in the kitchen lately the last few months.
 
I buy cheap kitchen knives and use an electric sharpener.That way it does'nt hurt my feelings.I hand sharpen all my other knives,I know lazy.........
 
Nothing wrong with that at all, my friend. What ever works for you. I enjoy nice kitchen knives because they get the most use and I just really enjoy the look, feel, and sound of a nice knife hitting a wooden cutting board. I know, it's a little goofy, but that's what I'm in to.
 
I keep a Sharpmaker set up on the kitchen counter all the time, with the white fine stones in it. Once a week or so I give the knife I'm using at the time five or six passes across the stones. (I stroke them across a borocillicate glass rod before each use though.) Keeps them sharp enough for any kitchen chores. Been doing this for years. I've never had to set them back on my EdgePro to redo the edges since I started doing this. They just keep on keeping on! :)

Stitchawl
 
I use a big long butcher steel. Everyday the knives I use get a few quick licks. I never cut an onion without first using the steel for a quick touch up. Sharp knives are a joy to use and make fast work in the kitchen.
 
myright said:
..........................

Got any good links to making a strop?

You are right - that knife is holding an edge very well. I've yet to sharpen it and have had it a few months, but I've also not used it as much. I just have been in the kitchen lately the last few months.
Click to expand...
Did you see the directions for making a strop in the PDF and vid links I have you using strips of leather on a paint stick and also a larger bench strop?

Dog of War, Borosilicate Rod http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HABoro1

The smooth butchers steel is not as much good on the relatively harder western style Japanese kitchen knives like the Shun (Global, MAC, and others) IMO because they are to hard and don't tend to roll the micro edge as much as a the softer German or Swedish steels . They also tend to be a little more brittle and chip if rolled much and if rolled back with a steel. They can roll a bit but it is better to use a slight abrasive to straighten them when steeling like the Borosilicate or ceramic rods, or a strop. They need a little more care, or protection from abuse so are perhaps more specialized, but the up side is they hold an edge much better. The ceramic rod would be the most coarse, the Borosilicate rod next and a leather strop with CrO the finest depending on how much work you need and weather you get your kitchen knives polished down to that fine a grit.
 
gary jp4 said:
Did you see the directions for making a strop in the PDF and vid links I have you using strips of leather on a paint stick and also a larger bench strop?

Dog of War, Borosilicate Rod http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HABoro1

The smooth butchers steel is not as much good on the relatively harder western style Japanese kitchen knives like the Shun (Global, MAC, and others) IMO because they are to hard and don't tend to roll the micro edge as much as a the softer German or Swedish steels . They also tend to be a little more brittle and chip if rolled much and if rolled back with a steel. They can roll a bit but it is better to use a slight abrasive to straighten them when steeling like the Borosilicate or ceramic rods, or a strop. They need a little more care, or protection from abuse so are perhaps more specialized, but the up side is they hold an edge much better. The ceramic rod would be the most coarse, the Borosilicate rod next and a leather strop with CrO the finest depending on how much work you need and weather you get your kitchen knives polished down to that fine a grit.
Click to expand...

Duh - yep I saw them. Doesn't look that hard at all.

In your opinion - How well would it work using a ceramic to touch up at each use? Too coarse or will it not make a difference?
 
gary jp4 said:
Dog of War, Borosilicate Rod http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=HABoro1
Click to expand...
Thanks, gary. I was kind of hoping for something where I could cobble together a V-type sharpener with two of 'em, and use it for applying a very high polish finish. At $108 a piece, that would be an expensive experiment.

In my own searching, I found this:

http://www.sundanceglass.com/pyrex-glass-r.htm

so thinking I may be able to scare something up on the cheap.
 
myright said:
Duh - yep I saw them. Doesn't look that hard at all.

In your opinion - How well would it work using a ceramic to touch up at each use? Too coarse or will it not make a difference?
Click to expand...
I think it works fine. I have used a 1200# Idahone ceramic steel (that came with my EdgePro) on my MAC Chef after it got a little dull and I wanted a touch up.

I think you should always start with the finest thing you can get away with and still get it sharp with out too much work. However it is no big deal on a kitchen knife and a ceramic steel my be more convenient. I think it is handy to have a ceramic steel around.

I am just saying if you recently came off a strop at .5 micron and you feel you need a little touch up you might be going backward to put a 1200# (about 6.5 micron) crock stick to it. If it is dull though by all means sharpen it. If the crock is the most convenient thing available or all you have with you right now then I would use it. Maybe you will be satisified with that finish anyway. It is pretty fine for a kitchen knife, works well to finish the removal of a burr, etc. It is not polished like it would be coming from a strop loaded with .5 micron CrO. Ceramic tends to polish a little more the stones of the same grit leaving a smoother finish.
 
DMT makes a ceramic steel they say is (2000 mesh / 7 micron) so that must be 2000# on the JIS scale.

Using the micron size that is about the same as the Idahone 1200# ceramic steel.
 
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