Gossman vs. Busse vs. Fehrman...

[brewcitymike]

Okay so I'm possibly gonna be able to finally afford one or two of my 'before I die' knives and I'm looking to get as much honest info as possible from actual owners, not fans. There are two models from each of these makers that I have always wanted but could never afford and I'm still not sure the Busses will be do able but I want to know about them anyway. My debate is for blades in the 7"ish size and the 9-10"size so I'm comparing like this:
Gossman Tusker 7" vs. Fehrman First Strike vs. Busse Steel Heart(any one) and also
Gossman Big Boar Tusker 9" vs Fehrman Extreme Judgement vs Busse Battle Mistress(any one)

So tell me about how well they chop, hold and edge, ease of sharpening, weight/balance, ergos, do finer tasks like food prep or even feathersticks if need be, and any other info you think is good for me to know. I'm REALLY hoping someone out there owns all three:thumbup: and can tell me about their experiences. Please do not turn this into an argument over which is better. These are all top of the line high end knives that are built to last and that are made by the best in the business and we can all agree on this.
Here's some pics to get you 'going'

 

[bigcountry1315]

I can only comment on the Gossman Big Boar Tusker.I have used it for everything from feather sticks to completely processing a whitetail deer from gutting and skinning to quartering. It stays sharp and I have had mine for 3 years and have never had to do anything but strop it to have it hair popping sharp.Sorry I do not own any of the others. Mine is an 8 inch Tusker.

 

[t1mpani]

"These are all top of the line high end knives that are built to last and that are made by the best in the business and we can all agree on this."

Unfortunately, you've largely answered most of your own question. I own several knives from all three, and they're fairly similar animals--stout points, thick spines, forward-heavy balance. All are made out of very tough steels which hold an edge well. If you're looking for maximum edge holding versus abrasion (cutting rope/cardboard) 3V has a bit of a lead on the other two. INFI is *possibly* the toughest of the three, it is certainly the most stain/rust resistant.

As to which cuts better, there are WAY too many variables that go into that, depending on the particular model of any given knife and the particular edge grind that was put on the knife by Scott or whoever was grinding edges on the given day at either of the two production companies. In general, Fehrman's factory edges are ground thinner than Busses--this makes them cut better but not as tough. That said, I can change any edge bevel on any knife to be pretty much anything I want, so that really doesn't bother me one way or another. It's worth noting that Busse edges these days are, in general, finer than they were in the "old days" of ten-fifteen years ago. Scott's convex edges used to be extremely thick but have thinned out over the years. I have one of the first Tuskers ever made, and another I picked up just this past year, and they are very different--the old is for all intents and purposes a hatchet--extremely thick grind on a VERY slack belt so that even though the convex grind is full-height, the blade is almost as thick in the middle as it is on the spine, and only tapers down to an edge in the very bottom section. For sheer volume of steel, this is one of the toughest knives I own bar none, but it really does best in splitting/batoning and doesn't cut very well in finer tasks, even after I've pulled the grind a little thinner. On the other hand, the newer tusker is thinner stock and ground with much less slack in the belt, which makes for a more rapid decent in thickness from spine to edge which greatly lightens and thins the blade. Not as hulky tough nor as much power in a chop as its older brother, but much more nimble for anything other than wailing on things and it'll cut circles around the older one.

Also, keep in mind that you can ask for anything you want in edge geometry from any of these makers, providing you're asking for a model that they offer--when you get on the phone with Busse, Fehrman, or Scott, you can absolutely say if you want your edge to be thinner, thicker, etc...though it'd be best to have a particular geometry in mind (i.e. fifteen degrees per side or whatever--obviously that's not perfect if you're talking a convex grind but Scott will know what you mean). Now, Busse no longer has a standard catalogue but makes one or two models at a time in runs, so if you want a specific model they're not offering you'll have to go to the secondary market. If you're not comfortable adjusting your own edge geometry, there are several people on these boards who can easily do a very nice job for you--I'm pretty good myself --and who will do so for return shipping and a song.

The other thing that can't be explained to you (or anybody) is the ergonomics. You won't know how any knife feels in your hand until you're holding it. There's no such thing as a piece of micarta, or steel, or anything else that can't be filed/sanded re-shaped so again this is adjustable; but anybody trying to tell you that "because knife X feels better to me than knife Y, it's going to be the same for you" is either operating from very limited experience, lazy, or not very smart---very possibly some combination of all three.

I know you want a "best" opinion between the three but truth be told, you're not going to go wrong with any of them. If you find yourself looking at one more than the others, then that's the one you want the most and probably your best bet. This assumes, of course, you're actually going to use it. If you're just going to hug it and squeeze it, Busse has the one advantage that their knives tend to accrue value rather strongly.

 

[brewcitymike]

"
I know you want a "best" opinion between the three but truth be told, you're not going to go wrong with any of them. If you find yourself looking at one more than the others, then that's the one you want the most and probably your best bet. This assumes, of course, you're actually going to use it. If you're just going to hug it and squeeze it, Busse has the one advantage that their knives tend to accrue value rather strongly.

Actually the one thing I'm not looking for is a 'best of', I just want opinions, reviews and likes/dislikes for the most part. I've been eyeing the Tusker(s) for about 4 years, but the other two only caught my eye about 18-24mos ago and I do go to Scott's website or do a Google image search for Tuskers on a pretty regular basis,lol. The Busse is great for the fact that it appreciates in value if the condition is good, but I want something I can use and I'm not sure I could use something that I spent Busse type money on. The Fehrmans, despite having a "tactical" look to them, seem to be quite popular on several outdoors/bushcraft forums and they're pretty close to the Tusker in price. Price plays a HUGE factor in my decision since I have limited funds and try to get the most bang for my buck. So if I can get a Tusker plus a decent production knife like a Boker ROLD, Buck Punk, or a Becker or two then that's the path I would probably choose.
Your answer(s) are good t1mpani, in the sense that you're correct about some stuff that I can only know once the knife is in my hands. I'm not looking for definitive answers to use as cold hard facts, just as suggestions. I have somewhat large hands so if you do as well, and one feels better than the others, I'd like to hear it. I'm a fan of simple micarta that has the canvas type of feel to it, not the smooth shiny micarta that is slippery. To help give a somewhat basis for answers, I can say that I love the size/feel of the Beckers though a bit of grooving would be nice, so anything in similar style would be up my alley. I also don't like overly long handles in the 5.5"+ range. Big hands or not 4.5-5" in more than enough. Hell look at some of Martin Olexey's stuff-then handles are like 2" yet full grown men love his work.
In regards to the re-profiling/grinding I don't have the skills or the equipment to do so. I have yet to even buy a decent sharpener which is crazy but every time I get a bit of money, I want to buy a knife and the sharpener sits back burner. I only have a few stones and two little pull throughs I use and not that well. I'm still mastering identifying the different grinds/bevels but I know I like Full flat, convex and hollow for slicing but a saber like on the Bk2 or Esee 5 isn't too bad either. I have reached out to RichardJ about getting some stuff sharpened and convexed but have yet to actually do it.
Well I hope adding a couple of my preferences helps in giving answers to my questions. I'll also add that I love a knife that can chop. I want it to get a nice bite and to have the weight to split small logs and fell small trees. This isn't something that a necessity for me but it is something I like to do for fun Most of the tasks my knives encounter in the field are basic camp craft like food prep, wood prep, wood working, etc. And around the house they'll cut open boxes and other packages, and cut cordage like 550 and clothesline. And feel free to post pics just for the hell of it
Oh and here's a pic of Olexey's work if you're not familiar with him. It surprised me how small his handles were but they sure seem to work well for the tons of people who use them, including quite a few soldiers.

 

[t1mpani]

Well, since price is an issue, and since the Busse knives you pictured are not currently available and could only, then, be obtained on the secondary market at higher prices, I'd count them out.

7 inch blades (despite some claims) do indeed have their place, but since you're mentioning the felling of small trees, they don't come anywhere close to the longer blades, not because of the differences in reach but rather the differences in weight/balance. Especially when combined with full-width exposed tangs, the seven-inchers tend to be relatively centrally balanced. The 9+" blades generate a great deal more momentum in a swing than their comparable 7" counterparts, and honestly are not significantly more difficult/cumbersome to carry or work with on smaller tasks--you can fillet a fish with a machete, as well as making fuzz sticks, etc.

On the Fehrman knives, the larger/wider models have decent sized handles and will probably fit you well. I actually would recommend the Final Judgement over the Extreme Judgement, based solely upon the fact that the former is a straight blade where the latter is a recurve. I actually like recurves quite a bit, but since you say your current sharpening equipment is a little sparse (and if you're not especially experienced at it yet) then a recurved blade in CPM 3V is probably a tough place to start. Plus, for a whole host of non-chopping/splitting chores, many find that a straight edge is more versatile overall.

Something the Gossman/Fehrman choices have over Busse is availability of a sheath with the knife. Scott makes sheaths for every knife he sells, and Fehrman has kydex available for about $25 I think on most knives, and $35 for leather. Busse doesn't offer sheaths anymore, largely because no matter what they offered, it always seemed like half the buying public didn't like it. So, they have contact info for custom sheath makers who can, of course, do anything you want. Now personally, I really like this, as I absolutely despise drop sheaths, and want something that carries the knife high up and not flopping around on a big flap or loop. You also can get much higher quality sheaths, either leather, nylon or kydex, than what comes with most knives. The downside, of course, is you have to wait for a sheath to be made, and also will likely shell out anywhere from $50 to $150 for a custom sheath depending on materials/design which, again, might likely be a knock against Busse products for you right now.

Back to sharpening, I think it's a bit of a tossup, really. 3V is a more abrasion-resistant steel than 5160/A2/O1 are, and as such holds an edge longer but also requires a bit more effort to sharpen. Something which I always recommend to people is to not let edges get too dull to begin with. If you know what you're doing, you can return a "pretty sharp" edge back to "freakin' sharp" in pretty short order (couple minutes with a pocket diamond stone) but if you let it get truly dull, you have some work ahead of you. One of those cases where an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure. That said, eventually you WILL have to sharpen it, and there are literally thousands of posts on these boards with tips/tricks on that front for any type of edge grind you have--I've written a few of them myself. In terms of equipment, an advantage that a full convex, "tear drop" grind like Scott makes has over a traditional V-grind is that sandpaper and a semi-soft backing is really all you need. You can get wet/dry paper in auto supply stores all the way from very coarse to 2000 grit, and if you want to make yourself a hardbacked strop out of some leather and a nice, straight 2X2" from a hobby store, you can add some polishing compound for that final little touch. As was mentioned by bigcountry, regular stropping will keep it sharp and cutting for a long time, so long as you avoid smacking rocks and nails with it.

At the end of the day, I own all three, and can recommend all three. Scott, of course, has the flexibility of materials, stock thickness, size of handle, etc. that can't be matched by any company that offers standard models, so if you like your handle to be more oval and less square (I bring up because you mention liking Becker handles) then that's something Scott could easily achieve, where that's just not how the Fehrman company is set up. I will admit that, since venturing into the customs market, I buy fewer and fewer factory blades--even the really high quality ones--just because I've gotten used to being spoiled and getting exactly what I want. At the same time, the Busses and Fehrmans still get pulled out to go and play quite a bit, and I'm not currently in the mood to sell 'em off.

Hope that helped some.

 

[brewcitymike]

You've helped quite a bit for sure and I DO plan to buy a sharpener asap. I'm eyeing either a Schrade Advant-edge or Dura-edge mainly because they look simple, they both got great reviews in Tactical Knives and they each only cost about $28-35, otherwise I'm looking at the Lansky Deluxe with the 5 hones which one of the Schrades also has and the other has 4. I want to have a wide range of options to practice my skills with. I also want to get some good stones like those Japanese water stones that Ray Mears uses for his axes. I just got my first Wetterlings and I want to make sure it stays able to do the paper cutting test. Plus I have a couple hawks I'd like to get really sharp.
I was wondering about the level of skill needed to sufficiently sharpen the 3V steel where as 01 is easy. I can get my 01 blades decently sharp with my stones which is a plus. I did try the wet/dry on one knife I have but it seemed to mess the edge up a bit, though I'm sure the way I used it had something to do with it I'm pretty sure the Gossman will be my choice for the chopper size and the First strike is looking good for the big camp knife size, though I'm sure a mini tusker or one of Scott's Deer Creek knives will work great for that role too. I'm also becoming accustomed to the 'this is how I want it' method of custom makers, but I'm realizing that after selling all my 'beginner' knives that I got in the fog of a newbie, that I don't have much left now. I sold off all my chinese junk like Frost knives, United Cutlery stuff and just about everything I ever bought from BudK,lol Now I only have about 15 good blades. I'm trying to buy one decent production every couple weeks at least like a Condor, Mora, Cold Steel, etc and a higher end one once a month or so in the $100 range. But customs are always calling my name I have a Breeden chopper and a Fletcher BOXL currently being made so I'm putting customs on the back burner until they arrive.
I do have to say that I hate the fact that Busse/Busse kin don't come with sheaths. Just cuz some people don't like them that doesn't mean everyone should go without. Even the people that don't like them would probably prefer one to use until their custom one can be made. I know Busse uses Brian from Okuden for a lot of their sheath referrals and I have owned one of his and can say that it was the best made kydex I've ever seen, but for that quality you'll pay a good some(about $50+/-)

 

[t1mpani]

Brian does all of my kydex--more expensive, certainly, but ten years later, from freezing to Arizona summers, they still hold their shape, which is something not all kydex can claim. Thicker material is harder to form, but it keeps it's shape.

Yes, the lack of sheaths is a topic still debated today on the Busse boards. If you like drop sheaths, the Spec Ops brand is well regarded, and significantly less than custom.

I think your leanings sound good--and heaven knows, it's pretty easy to get most of your money out of either Gossman or Fehrman if either just doesn't feel right when it shows up.

Don't be intimidated by 3V--it's probably 20% harder to sharpen than equivalent-hardness O1, not 200%. I do personally prefer diamond stones to water stones, as they laugh at all steels, even the S90Vs and CPM-M4s of the world at full hardness, and do not lose their flat shap like water stones do. Whatever you choose, though, just remember to never move to fine until you've gotten it sharp enough to catch hair (not necessarily cut it) on the coarse stone. If you move to fine too quickly, you'll be at it a long time.

 

[wjswiger]

I own both Busse and Fehrman and find both to be outstanding.....Fehrman's warranty and customer service is outstanding. Also, I find Fehrman's handles to be better for me than Busse but I also have a custom blade by David Williamson at Ozark Tradition Knives(OTK) with a carbon fiber handle and find that knife to be better than any of the others....but you also pay more for custom. I say good luck....you won't find a bad knife amongst the lot.....my choice is OTK...but that is just me!!

 

[geargeek]

If you are considering getting a Gossman, I'd consider the Bolo instead of the Tusker. Just my 2 cents but the Bolo is an excellent design for a camp knife and a chopper, I think it might be even better than the Tusker, and that is saying a lot! Also Scott is now making his knives in S7 as an option, if you want the ultimate in toughness... My Bolo is A2 and it is great though, plenty tough for me...

 

[svbk556]

Sold my Busse (great knife) and bought two Grayman's. A Dinka and 7.5 inch Pounder. Yes, I know this did not help your decision making process. So many knives...So little cash.

 

[SavageSmurf]

There are two Busses being offered by the shop now that have the same blade length as the NMSFNO (LBTG+SARGE7). You'd be able to get the7" blade size you're looking for at factory bottom pricing if you go with Busse for that size.

 

[james terrio]

All I can really add is that if I had to choose one really good knife in either a 7" or 9" blade, I'd select the 9 every time. I'll take a guess and say you probably have a good smaller knife
for more delicate tasks already.

Don't be intimidated by 3V--it's probably 20% harder to sharpen than equivalent-hardness O1, not 200%. I do personally prefer diamond stones to water stones, as they laugh at all steels, even the S90Vs and CPM-M4s of the world at full hardness, and do not lose their flat shape like water stones do. Whatever you choose, though, just remember to never move to fine until you've gotten it sharp enough to catch hair (not necessarily cut it) on the coarse stone. If you move to fine too quickly, you'll be at it a long time.

Well said. :thumbup:

 

[Buffalohump]

I'd go with a Gossman. Scott is a great guy to deal with and by all accounts makes a hell of a good chopper - and it comes with a great sheath at no extra charge! Also, you can specify exactly what you want with a custom knife (within reason) and most makers will be accommodating. Scott also works in both stainless and tool steels.

Good luck finding the Busse you want, its not an easy task! I think the Battle Mistress is too big and heavy a knife for the tasks you mentioned. The NMSFNO or regular SFNO would probably be better. Or the new Basic 10. Or a Scrap Yard Dogfather.

Fehrmans are more easily available. I havent owned one so I cant really comment on how good they are. I like the look of them though! A friend owned one and said the handle didnt work for him (too small), so you might want to consider the one without the birds beak handle.

 

[Camber]

Another vote for Scott! I have a custom chopper from him and it's fantastic....the edge angle actually varies a bit from the ricasso to the point so that it's finer hear the handle for making feathers and thicker near the tip to handle the chopping. I only live about an hour from him so have visited him a handful of times to talk about knives and the chopper design. He is an amazing stand up guy.

And if warranty concerns are an issue for you, he stands behind his work in the same way Busse does. If by some chance you ruin your blade trying to chop through a tank, he'll take care of you...at least once, lol.

I do also own some Busse's, and they are very nice, but there's something really nice about working personally with Scott, and if INFI is a better steel, I'm not sure you'll ever notice it unless you are pushing things ala Cliff Stamp.

 

[stanley_white]

Another vote for Scott Gossman!

For the price of a Busse you can get a custom made blade that meets your personal specifications.

In addition to being an outstanding Knifemaker Scott is an outstanding person who is very giving of his time to his customers.

From here on out all my cash goes to Scott Gossman.

-Stan

 

[Shotgun]

Another vote for Scott! I have a custom chopper from him and it's fantastic....the edge angle actually varies a bit from the ricasso to the point so that it's finer hear the handle for making feathers and thicker near the tip to handle the chopping.

I just got back a Scrapper 711 from Scott and it's just like you describe. Nice fine edge near the handle and a stout tip. The factory edge was WAY too thick. If Busses are any thing like their two sister companies then you'll have some reprofiling to do to make the knife live up to it's potential. Every edge on the 4 knives I've bought from them have been too thick.

 

[Ken44]

All three make a great knife.

IMO, you can't go wrong with any of those.

With a custom(Scott) you will be able to order the knife with the edge you want, if that matter's to you.

 

[WILLIAM.M]

I have tested all those makers-and more.(ask my wallet)



As to what one you should get FIRST

They FEEL very different in hand(Busse and Fehrman) and in USE as well.

I suggest you get one of those First---then try and compare it to another make

As in Get a Busse or Fehrman first--then test it.

If you do not like it--re-selling a a fast and easy task.

Then find someone with a Fehrman or Busse that you can test for 10 Minutes.

SO there you are with BOTH a Busse and a Fehrman-IN HAND-and you do some testing.

I assure you -that it will take you less than 10 minutes(somethimes a lot less) to determine which knife feels better in hand and in USE

Then after you decide what knife you like best--Busse or Fehrman

As far as Comfort--you will either love or hate the Fehrman and Busse handles.Some people love both and others hate both.

If you are happy--end of QUEST

IF NOT

Then---you call Scott and have him make you one with the features you like of the above company and without the features yuu do not like

Once you start buying Custom made knives you will start a never ending quest for the most comfortable,best cutting,best chopping,etc

All 3 makers will produce a knife that will outlast you and you will be able to pass it on to your Grandchildren.

Quality is not an issue--all are GREAT

What you need to seek (IMHO) is a knife that feels as good as it looks ---and cuts as good as it feels.

And your hand will be the only judge



Looking forward to seeing what you get first

Dr.Bill

 

[kdstrick]

I've got Busse's and Fehrman's.... Tusker may have to be my next purchase. Great looking knives. I'd prefer the A2 if I did, it's a great steel.

The difference between Infi and 3v is slight. Infi has superior corrosion resistance and is a bit easier to sharpen IMO. Both are excellent knife steels and both come with an unconditional warranty. I would highly recommend either. One other consideration is that Fehrman's large knives all have the same handle configuration. It may or may not work for your hand. Busse has far more models, but generally you are limited to the secondary market.

One other consideration for you, since price is a concern... is a busse kin company called scrapyard. Currently they are offering a 7" blade of SR101, which is 52100 with Busse's heat treatment. It's very difficult to tell the difference between it and infi, except that is not corrosion resistant and will require a little oil from time to time. Some folks feel that it actually takes a keener edge than infi. The 711 is selling for a mere $139.95. It is by far the best value in the knife world today in my opinion.

Still, whichever one you decide on I congratulate you for narrowing it down to three fantastic makers. You've done your homework.


Good luck!


.

 

[HuntBomb]

I have had a great experience with Busse's BJ (6"), NMSFNO (8"), and NMFBM (11")
Scrapyard and Swamprat are available for much cheaper and are close in performance.
NMSFNO is about the best all-around camp knife IMO.