Got a ? for you guys

Ridge-Runner

Ridge-Runner

Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
858
Due to recent events, I have a ?. I have noticed some instances in the past and now after recent events here I have a ? that is puzzling me.
Why is it a bad thing to be a dealer. I understand if you are a LK that is gouging people or whatever but if you are providing a service to people of course you are out to make a profit. So what gives witt the negativity towards dealers?
Andy if this is a too controversial topic and you dont want it on your forum let me know and I will delete it and move it to general, but since I spend and post mostly here I just dropped it here.
 
I didn't know there was a negative connotation. I can tell you this. Lee Beene, Derrick Bohn, and Julie Hyman are, all 3, quality people. Derrick is a friend, and has made a big difference to my business.

Now, if there is some negative connotation against folks just because they are profiting, I blame dumbass liberalism.
 
Hmmm, I don't know if what you've observered is directed towards any particular dealers, I haven't actually seen that, but I would guess maybe it's just having another layer, a middleman between us and something we want. Longer to get, more expensive, less personal.

Personally, I've bought from most of Andy's dealers because they had a knife I wanted that I couldn't get any other way. After waiting a long time for a particular model that never seemed to come up on the batch list, or knowing that Andy was filling orders and my chances were slim of getting the model I wanted, I have occasionally gone ahead and paid a premium to a dealer. And I can honestly say I've had less than stellar dealer service a time or two. That is my biggest issue. Besides, I'd rather give my money directly to Andy who I want to support as a craftsman, husband, and father. A dealer experience is way less personal.

Having said that, I do buy from Amazon and such which is highly impersonal, BUT they have a lower price on an item most of the time. If I have my choice I'd prefer to deal directly with the maker or a local Mom and Pop shop. Sometimes you just can't do that... I don't think I'm negative towards dealers, but when possible I prefer to not use them.
 
Fiddleback said:
Now, if there is some negative connotation against folks just because they are profiting, I blame dumbass liberalism.
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That's it exactly. The Dems have made a life and a career for themselves by pitting people against each other over money or race. They've realized that they can raise money and votes by stirring the pot, so now anybody that is successful is "profiteering" or receiving "wind fall profits." The implication is that neither of those activities are a result of hard work or forethought, much less supply and demand. It's embarrassing that the American people have lost the abillity to think critically, and are easy prey for such a transparent and childish tactic. Thankfully, most of the folks with whom I've come in contact in the knife and firearm world are a bit better grounded than that.

A good dealer is a valuable thing. He has more sway with a manufacturer, since he buys more product. He can intercede on behalf of his customer base, push for different features, lower prices, faster service, more quality, etc. I dealt with a fella named Ceylon (Delta Outdoorsman) about an Eberlestock pack last week. He was much more helpful and knowledgable than Eberlestock - even to the point of sending 6 cell phone pictures from his warehouse after 8pm showing detail on the pack about which I was inquiring. He also said that he would mention to Mr. Eberlestock my need for a specific pack config that they don't make yet. That is going to mean more coming from a high volume dealer, than from a single end-user's email. Some dealers are chumps, but a good one is really an asset.

Obviously, we don't want custom knife dealers pressuring Andy to do ANYTHING different, but I'm sure Andy would pile 'em in a corner if they tried. It's kinda cool to go on KSF and drool over a batch of knives now and then, though. A dealer means a big lump sum sale for Andy, instead of having to piece-meal 'em out one at a time, too. Now and then, a big cash sale is a good thing. Lord knows, if I had the money, I'd have bought several of Andy's batches by now! :)

That having been said, I MUCH prefer the brown paper and twine presentation when a knife comes straight from Andy! :)
 
chainring said:
A good dealer is a valuable thing. He has more sway with a manufacturer, since he buys more product. He can intercede on behalf of his customer base, push for different features, lower prices, faster service, more quality, etc...

That having been said, I MUCH prefer the brown paper and twine presentation when a knife comes straight from Andy! :)
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Bingo on the brown paper!

And I'm really far, like the exact opposite, of a liberal, and I'm all for the "work hard, make money" philosophy (I frequently wear my Don't Tread On Me gear, vote Republican, shoot guns and go to church every week...). But does more features, lower prices, faster service, more quality really apply in this case? Big manufacturers with lots of dealers like Eberlestock (they make some killer packs don't they?) sure, but a small scale knife maker? I don't know. Regardless, a good dealer is always an asset to a maker I'm sure so I get your point.

Maybe when dealer negativity is considered here Ridge isn't referring to Andy's dealers in particular, I don't know about that. Any chance of getting a little more info on what you perceive as dealer negativity Ridge?

I see Andy as a craftsman, he makes mostly what he wants to make (now that orders are almost done ;) ), and I doubt is swayed by his dealers much. He didn't ask for a focus group to determine if the handle redesign on the Hunter would go over with customers, or if the Palmer should have a resurgance (it should ;) ). And I find his shipping to be quicker, his service more personalized, his satisfaction policy more generous, his customer service considerably better than the dealers I have experience with. But regardless I would still buy from them if they have the piece I want probably...

I'm not dealer negative, just Andy postive!
 
Now damn it - this has NOTHING to do with Partisan politics. I could replace everything Chainring said about dems and put republicans and be equally right. Bible thumping, and baby kissing when we should be working on governmental problems. Full time politicians are full time politicians - they do what it takes to win - not necessarily lead the country.

Let's stay on topic.

I think the point is that Andy get's more Money if we buy from Andy - that is what I prefer. Also, when dealing with Andy directly, you can usually get a little something special done. However, Andy had an impossible time keeping up with the custom orders - so he worked another route. No biggie.

However, if you are talking about KSS - he has done a TON for Andy and other dealers. He sold the lions share of the BRKT Andy knife and so on.

KSS also does GREAT business - and Andy makes a great knife.

I see no issue here - nor does Andy.

TF
 
I wondered when you would find this thread, Tal! ;) Yeah, you're right, there are quite a few good ol' boy RINOs that have figured out how to game the system. No offense, Tal, I'd be happy for my kids to be in any class you taught except politics! :p
Far as I'm concerned, we are to the pitchforks and torches stage in this country...except our wonderful schools have trained all the balls off of the boys with ISS and counseling. Now they "occupy Wallstreet" while tweeting on Iphones, sleeping in North Face tents, sipping Starbucks, and hoping nobody puts a parking ticket on their Toyota Prius - all the while railing against big corporations and the status quo. Welcome to the revolution, it's fabulous. Kept people, to a man. Gotta chuckle every time I hear "valley girl" from a grown man-boy in an interview.


Anyway, dealers serve a purpose. I use the one's that are fair and have good CS, and skip the others. I figure the ones who don't provide a quality product at a fair price to an individually motivated public will go under eventually, which is the Free Market at work. Well....unless they get the next Solendra-style loan from our Meddler in Chief! Oops, there I go again....
 
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I have always found that when talking to my more 'conservative' friends - we have FAR more in common than we don't. I agree with the pitchforks and torches... and an EDC!

TF
 
I think a majority of the negative connotation about dealers stems from LK. I think the rest of it has to do with the hard times we are living in now. Some people expect to buy a knife second hand in mint condition at less than it originally sold from the maker. In the case of a green "dealer" membership they also expect that dealer to solve any and all problems the buyer has with any given knife, whether it is actually a defect or they just don't like it. What the dealer membership has done is put regular people in the position of an actual dealer like the ones Andy mentioned when they are not really geared up for it nor is that their lively hood. In the end it is up to the buyer to decide who to buy from.
 
chainring said:
Anyway, dealers serve a purpose. I use the one's that are fair and have good CS, and skip the others. I figure the ones who don't provide a quality product at a fair price to an individually motivated public will go under eventually, which is the Free Market at work. Well....unless they get the next Solendra-style loan from our Meddler in Chief! Oops, there I go again....
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Stratmeister said:
Bingo on the brown paper!

Maybe when dealer negativity is considered here Ridge isn't referring to Andy's dealers in particular, I don't know about that. Any chance of getting a little more info on what you perceive as dealer negativity Ridge?
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oeser said:
I think a majority of the negative connotation about dealers stems from LK. In the end it is up to the buyer to decide who to buy from.
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As for Straitmestier ?, if you look at the thread where I posted the EDC for sale over at the Exchange (as I have done several occasions) it was all good until I suggested that he maybe trying to start dealing. So I dont know if he did not want to be classified as a dealer and have to pay a premium membership or that he just did not want to be in the same class as a dealer. Then another member said "I dont think that you are a dealer" like it was a bad thing. Its just puzzling to me. And the member whose knife it was stated outright that he was not a dealer.
As for chain and oeser's comments I am full agreement, if they are gouging or doing shoddy biz the free market will take care of em, so why is up to us to dump on em unless they have stuck it to you personally. Just my 2 cents worth which probably aint worth that :).
I was just took back when I got a PM from the seller asking me to delete the thread, when in my eyes I thought if anything it would have been helping him. Although I was doing it more for the guys on this forum that visit here regularly and maybe dont venture over on the Exchange much.
 
Ridge-Runner said:
As for Straitmestier ?, if you look at the thread where I posted the EDC for sale over at the Exchange (as I have done several occasions) it was all good until I suggested that he maybe trying to start dealing. So I dont know if he did not want to be classified as a dealer and have to pay a premium membership or that he just did not want to be in the same class as a dealer. Then another member said "I dont think that you are a dealer" like it was a bad thing. Its just puzzling to me. And the member whose knife it was stated outright that he was not a dealer.
As for chain and oeser's comments I am full agreement, if they are gouging or doing shoddy biz the free market will take care of em, so why is up to us to dump on em unless they have stuck it to you personally. Just my 2 cents worth which probably aint worth that :).
I was just took back when I got a PM from the seller asking me to delete the thread, when in my eyes I thought if anything it would have been helping him. Although I was doing it more for the guys on this forum that visit here regularly and maybe dont venture over on the Exchange much.
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I think it was really good of you to bring that sales thread to the attention of Fiddleback fans. I have seen you and others do it before and I, for one, think it should continue.

I know LMT66 from the Busse forums. We have bought sold and traded knives to each other quite a few times. He likes to buy a knife to take it for a test drive. He usually buys good knives that hold their value so he doesn't have to take a major hit on the resale. I think his reaction to the "dealer" title stems from the issues that have come up on the Busse exchange sub-forum. There have been a number of things that have happened there with one dealer in particular that have really soured things. Don't get me wrong, there are some guys who are dealers there that are good guys that I call my friends. However, this dealer started a chain reaction that caused a lot of problems.

What I wish some people could realize is that if a knife made by Andy sells for more on the second hand market than it originally cost direct from Andy, that is a GOOD thing. It means our knives, whether users or safe queens are appreciating in value. That is something I think we all want. :thumbup:
 
Yeah, I been known to buy Fiddlebacks in the full knowledge that if I don't find a permanent place for 'em in my lineup, I can sell it like a hot cake. It's very handy!
 
In my opinion folks on this site are confused by the "Dealer" term and it is a direct result of one member named Lui Kang.

Until BFC revises the membership levels in some way, it will continue to cause problems here. I would not care to be the one who tackles that issue as it would be very hard to do. Had no special considerations been made for LK, we wouldn't be discussing this right now nor would we have so many green colors to look at.
 
See I have read about LK in the cove and I just dont get it. If he is such a problem, and is charging so much how the hell is he selling any knives. I mean I dont even go to the Busse forum and I know that this guy is bad news if nothing more than by reputation (which is everything on the net), so how is he still making money?
Yea I agree oeser, I have bought guns in the past new and sold them for quit a bit more than what I paid for them. Why is it that people think a knife ought to be different.
 
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