Grain direction

JTknives

JTknives

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Jun 11, 2006
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I was wondering if using a full tang blade where i would be using scales if it is ok to run the grain the other way. so insted of the wood grain running from the tip of the knife to the but it would go from spine to edge, so up and down. i have some nice cocobolo that i think would look nice that way. i like to do things diffrent and sofar i gess the standared is the grain goes left to right not up and down.
 
Two factors to contend with when the grain runs other than the length of the tang: cracks and shrinkage. Most woods shrink 4 to 5 time as much across grain as they do the length of the grain. If you pin the ends and the wood shirnks, the wood will be in tension arcoss grain and have a tendency to crack. This will also cause the wood to pull away form any guard, bolster, or butt cap.

Hope tis helps.

Jim Arbuckle
 
hu i did not know that, im using cocobolo wood is it stable in the sence of shrinking. it seames cured all the way.
 
I've never seen someone run the grain sideways like that, but I would think a nice stable wood like coco or maple would be the best bet. If it is stabilized then I don't see a problem at all.

What the hell, try it with a piece of scrap and see what happens. Make a dummy in the right size and shape, leave it out in the sun, throw it in the freezer, beat the hell out of it, etc. Let us know how it holds up!
 
well i think it will look sweet, i have been thinking about how i should atach the scales to the tang. at first i thought just pins and epoxy but some times epoxy will break loose if there is to much stress aplayed. also becuse the epoxy dryes hard if the wood does want to move a little it could crack because of the epoxy. So to fix this problem i have been thinking about using a silacone glue like shoe glue to atach the scales, also cutting the hols for the pins a little biger and filling around then with silacone. This wil alow the wood to move slightley and not crack or detach from the tang. what do you think
 
If you use wood turned side-ways on the handle your only causing yourself problems. When you use the knife, stress is exerted on the handle and the possibility of handle damage is much more likely if the wood is on this way. Only my opinion...if the knife is ever dropped, I can almost guarentee a busted handle. Let us know how it turns out... good luck:confused: :cool: :confused:
 
well im going with a full tang with scales so i dont think breaking a handle is a problem. if i was doing a hidden tang then i could see how if droped the handle could break where the tang stopes inside.
 
JT

Do a through tang. You can drill a hole clear thru the handle and attach it via a finial and butt cap or a butt cap with a nut brazed on. Even if you are going with cross grain material it will hold it all together. I agree that cross grain on a full tang knife is not the best choice. Even cocbolo will "move". This will happen if you sell the knife and it goes to another area of the country. Send it out to the coast and it will swell up like a sponge. I made a black palm handle with the pins running across the handle so it looks like little dots. It can be very fragile but once it was contained via the method i described it was very stable and strong.

Chuck
 
hu i gess a full tang is not what i thought it was, i mean that the metal is the same size as the handle and it is sandwitched between the wood. so when you look at the top you can see the metal. I thought that it was called a full tang but maybe i was misstaken
 
Yes you are correct in your definition. The probelm with the full tang construction is you need to use a much thinner slab to construct the handle. This is were you are going to run into problems with the material moving. I have had a dry piece of cocobolo, air dried 5+ yrs inside my garage. move .020 inches. It may not seem like a lot but in a cross grain pinned full tang you will run into problems. This is why I suggested a thru tang or narrow tang captured on both sides. This will provide the stability you need. I know that there is much debate on weather full tang is stronger than a stick/narrow or through tang. Personnaly I have seen more full tang knives fail than those constructed via through tang construction. This is my own opinion and i make almost all my knives via the through tang method.

Chuck
 
A C Richards said:
I have had a dry piece of cocobolo, air dried 5+ yrs inside my garage. move .020 inches.
Click to expand...

I would not have expected that, that is a lot.

Try it both ways :) I'm just curious about your silicone idea. Chuck's instructions definitely make more sense mechanically, though.

If you really want to go full-tang, and you really want that look, you could try making a cross-grain insert inlaid into each slab. Like an oval of cross-grain maple in a cocobolo scale would look pretty cool I think. Would that work, A C Richards?
 
If you really want to go full-tang, and you really want that look, you could try making a cross-grain insert inlaid into each slab. Like an oval of cross-grain maple in a cocobolo scale would look pretty cool I think. Would that work, A C Richards?[/QUOTE]


Give it a try. It seems to be a lot of work. If your going to do an inlay then go with MOP or something like that.

Chuck
 
JT - Filling around the pin with a soft flexible "shoe goo" would not be a good idea. The glue is not there to hold the handle on (and would not hold well to cocobola anyway).That is what the rivets do. You will hear a lot from some makers about how good this glue or that glue is,and how they don't even need rivets or pins. Look at the problems in the Big Dig Tunnels in Boston and you will see the fallacy of relying on the glue to hold it together!
Strong rivets (I use Corby rivets) and a good grade slow cure epoxy (24 hour cure) will give you the most reliable mounting of the scales.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
JT - Filling around the pin with a soft flexible "shoe goo" would not be a good idea...
Stacy
Click to expand...

Stacy is soooo right. Silicone-based adhesives are NOT suitable for this application! Too soft, Too fragile, Too weak adhering to metal (despite what the package says). Even if there is no structural consideration, the fact is that it will NOT finish nicely. You'd HATE the finish you'd get on edges. BIG Trouble! You'd be far better off with no adhesive.
 
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