Granddaddy Barlow

mbjannusch

mbjannusch

Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
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I recently won an auction on a Granddaddy Barlow, made by Camilluts for Buck knives. Inthe 90s Buck came out with a line of Barlow's. I got a prototype for the jogged bone version. The blade is stamped Buck USA but the back of the blade is stamped Musket 1 which is the mystery. The musket1 is a Remington knife. Any Help
 
I would suggest that you do your research before you buy a knife, not after. It is very easy to mark a knife "Prototype" to inflate the price.
I will ask the former employees at Camillus that made the samples or prototypes to see if anyone recalls this knife.
I read all the postings on the BUCK forums and someone stated that the large Barlows were all made by Camillus. This is not true. Most of the knives made by Camillus for BUCK were the 300 series (301, 303, 305, etc.). I remember packing thousands of these knives.
A sample or prototype knife made by Camillus may or may not have a tang stamp. I have never seen a case where a blade had the name ground off and then was restamped. If a different brand was put on the blade it would be etched. This was a common practice in the later years at the Camillus factory. I have a prototype of one of the Lok-Backs made by Camillus and it has no tang stamp. I know one of the knife makers in the Model Shop and we had a discussion about prototypes at one time and I showed him some tang stamps in my collection and he remembered using them on sample knives for special customers.
Tom Williams
 
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I visited the BUCK site again and I would like to comment on knives made by Camillus from leftover parts. Camillus would use knife parts that were surplus or leftover to assemble "special" knives and then sell them to Smoky Mountain Knife Works. For example there was a large amount of parts left from the Sears-Roebuck 100th Anniversary knife (I think that knife was made in 1986). Many of these parts were assembled into the Buford Pusser knife for SMKW (this is the second Buford Pusser knife made by Camillus) about the year 2003. Leftover parts became available when the customer stopped buying knives from Camillus, went bankrupt or too many parts were made for an order. When Schrade closed their doors in 2004 there was a large amount of parts at Camillus. The Schrade brand was ground off the blades and they were etched on the tang with a new brand. Compare some Schrade knives made by Camillus and the "Gran'Pa" knives. Many Remington blades were remarked this way also. Camillus made many "special" knives for SMKW that you can not find in any Camillus catalog. They are good quality knives made for a good customer. Using parts on hand allowed making knives at a lower price. I sold many knives to SMKW in the 1980's and they were a pleasure to do business with. I sold them many of the knives that were discontinued when new models were introduced.
Many times there were leftover parts from Sears "Craftsman" knives because the manufacturer would have to anticipate a knife's demand based on previous sales so extra knives were produced. You had to have inventory on hand to meet future orders. This was different from other customers that would place an order for a set amount like 10,000 knives per month.
Tom Williams
 
CAMCO said:
I would suggest that you do your research before you buy a knife, not after. It is very easy to mark a knife "Prototype" to inflate the price.
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Weather the "Prototype" knife was a true Prototype or not, it is different than the one that I have, so I wanted it. I've been collecting Buck Knives for almost 20 years so, I have done more research than you could imagine. The comment made on the BUCK site was that Camillus made all the Daddy and Granddaddy Barlows, not just all large barlows. I'm not a barlow collector per say. That being said, I don't know if all large barlows are considered Daddy/Granddaddy barlows. I recall another thread where it was said. If Camillus didn't make them all, what company made a daddy/granddaddy barlow.
You say Camillus made allot of "special" knives for SMKW. All Buck Barlows were made by Camillus for Buck as an exclusive for SMKW. How you you explain the Granddaddy barlow made by Camillus for Buck as an exclusive for SMKW with a blade originally made for Remington (Musket-1). If you compare the two side by side, they are almost identical, except the Buck has BUCK on the bolster and BUCK USA on the tang stamp. I really appreciate any info you can provide.
 
Be very careful when you buy when you buy a special knife on Ebay that is labeled a "Prototype". A sellers claim is not always accurate. It is quite easy to take a knife and etch or engrave the blade with the word "Prototype". This is done to enhance the value of a knife and make it appear to be unique or "one of a kind". Contact the seller before you purchase the knife and get more information about the knife and how they acquired it. A "Prototype" knife normally comes from the factory/maker that made it or the customer that received it with a price quote/presentation to get their business.
I am not sure that the BUCK knife that you have is a "Prototype" without personally inspecting it. I would also question whether your knife was even made by Camillus. A "Prototype" knife made by Camillus would usually have the word "Prototype" engraved on the blade and yours appears to be etched with a different style lettering than the style that Camillus used. I do not recall seeing any Daddy Barlows made at the Camillus factory for BUCK. I do remember these knives being made for A.G. Russel, Remington, KABAR, Robeson, Schrade and with the Camillus brand (model #9). Perhaps Phil has more information on these knives and his input would be appreciated.
Tom Williams
 
I attempted to contact Phil but was unsuccessful. I'm sure this knife and the other Barlows made for Buck Knives were made by Camillus, as exclusives for SMKW. This isn't the question, it's already a known fact. Camillus made the Musket-1 Daddy Barlow for Remington. This is another fact. I am just trying to put together the puzzle pieces of how a Remington Musket-1 blade, made by Camillus ended up on a Granddaddy Barlow made for Buck Knives as an exclusive for the SMKW. Wow that was a mouth full.

I would like to know the difference between engraving and etching.
 
An engraving is done with a sharp instrument that follows a template. Etching is burned into the metal usually with acid and a stencil. How was the word "Prototype" placed on your knife?

Tom Williams
 
The word Prototype was engraved. I looked at it through a 30 power loop. It was definitely engraved with some sort of electric tool, like an engraving pencil. I wish I could get a picture of the lines. It almost looks like a stencil was placed on the blade and it was done by hand.
 
Sorry I am so late to the party Guys!

I have given this a lot of thought, & here is my opinion.

Matt's knife is a Camillus made knife. (I have a Grand Daddy Barlow Buck bolster in my bolster drawer !). :thumbup:

It is more than likely the original approval sample made for SMKW to use as a photo sample. This Buck knife was made after the Remington Musket Knife. When Wally Rockwell (Camillus Sample Maker :cool:) was charged with making this knife, rather that having to make a blade from scratch, his options on available blades would have been limited. It was not a frequently made pattern. He took a left over Remington blade, sanded off the Remington Tang stamp, annealed the tang & stamped Buck on the blade.
To confirm this, if you measure the thickness of the blade at the stamped area of the tang, it should be .010 - .015 thinner than the production version. :thumbup:

I believe Tom was confused by the "Prototype" engraved on the pile side of the blade.
Definitely NOT done at the Camillus Factory! :thumbdn:

Unfortunately, IMHO, the seller (James Parker) tried to prove it was a prototype by engraving it!
He did not realize that the Musket 1 pile side stamp is fair proof of it's prototype status. :thumbdn:

I assume the knife did not come with the box & papers?
This too is correct! :thumbup:
The boxes & papers would have been made during the production run, well after Wally made this knife.

I hope this helps.

Please remember, this is an OPINION, not a statement of fact!
 
Phil Gibbs said:
Sorry I am so late to the party Guys!

I have given this a lot of thought, & here is my opinion.

Matt's knife is a Camillus made knife. (I have a Grand Daddy Barlow Buck bolster in my bolster drawer !). :thumbup:

It is more than likely the original approval sample made for SMKW to use as a photo sample. This Buck knife was made after the Remington Musket Knife. When Wally Rockwell (Camillus Sample Maker :cool:) was charged with making this knife, rather that having to make a blade from scratch, his options on available blades would have been limited. It was not a frequently made pattern. He took a left over Remington blade, sanded off the Remington Tang stamp, annealed the tang & stamped Buck on the blade.
To confirm this, if you measure the thickness of the blade at the stamped area of the tang, it should be .010 - .015 thinner than the production version. :thumbup:

I believe Tom was confused by the "Prototype" engraved on the pile side of the blade.
Definitely NOT done at the Camillus Factory! :thumbdn:

Unfortunately, IMHO, the seller (James Parker) tried to prove it was a prototype by engraving it!
He did not realize that the Musket 1 pile side stamp is fair proof of it's prototype status. :thumbdn:

I assume the knife did not come with the box & papers?
This too is correct! :thumbup:
The boxes & papers would have been made during the production run, well after Wally made this knife.

I hope this helps.

Please remember, this is an OPINION, not a statement of fact!
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This is a great bit of good info, weather completely accurate or close to the truth, its more info than I have received as of yet. As for the engraving being done by the seller, I'm going to hope that that's not true. Thanks for the help.
 
mbjannusch said:
This is a great bit of good info, weather completely accurate or close to the truth, its more info than I have received as of yet. As for the engraving being done by the seller, I'm going to hope that that's not true. Thanks for the help.
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I will state as FACT that the engraving was NOT done at the Camillus factory. We did not have that script style.
There is, I suppose, a slim chance that Buck or SMKW did the engraving. :rolleyes:
It is a shame, as I believe it could well be a sample.
 
Phil Gibbs said:
I will state as FACT that the engraving was NOT done at the Camillus factory. We did not have that script style.
There is, I suppose, a slim chance that Buck or SMKW did the engraving. :rolleyes:
It is a shame, as I believe it could well be a sample.
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Well I sent the seller a message and asked if the engraving was done by him, reassuring him that I had no intention of returning the knife or making any claims of counterfeit. I don't feel confident that he will respond and if he does I for see a lie. I told him that there were many traits of this knife that pointed to it being a sample/ prototype but the engraving just doesn't fit. I begged for honesty. I will keep everybody posted on the results, good, bad, or indifferent.
 
I contacted James Parker (Silverlady screen name) and asked if he would be honest if he was the one who engraved the knife and he replied "No" and said if I wanted to return the knife, he would refund my money. I will keep the knife but I may contemplate having the engraving removed.
 
The Ebay seller's name is "Silverladdie" that sold the BUCK "Prototype" knife. He currently has a CASE 1994 Sunfish knife listed on Ebay. The blade has the same style "Prototype" engraving on the blade. This knife was definitely not made by Camillus.
Tom Williams
 
I asked him to explain that fact and he couldn't. He says he bought the collection in that condition and the prior Collector may have done those engravings. I told him I thought it was Bull, because a collector wouldn't engrave a knife prototype, he would know that it was a prototype or it would have come from the maker already engraved. How does he explain the same script style letters:(

I contacted him again and he has yet to respond.
 
I sent two e-mails to the seller (silverladdie) requesting additional photos and information about the 1994 CASE knife and I have not received any response. I specifically asked for photos of the "Prototype" engraving on the blade.
Tom Williams
 
It will be interesting to see what he will respond with, if he responds. He is selling some really nice knives, its too bad he isn't honest. I don't care if you are selling the one knife I have always wanted and it is totally affordable, if you aren't honest I won't give it a second look.
 
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