Grass roots approach

O

oldscrimmer

Joined
Nov 23, 2007
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205
I’m taking a grass roots approach to a discussion we’ve had around the campfire for a good many years. I wish to share it with you guys for whatever it’s worth. We at camp are all deer hunters, woodsmen, and sporting goods users of an average degree. Many of us have skills better than others, so sharing is of prime importance.

Here we all daily discuss knives, survival, craftsmanship, etc. Around the camp fire we discuss many of the same things, we just get to have a beer with the discussion. :) One of our discussions centered around folding knives as opposed to fixed blade knives, in general. At the outset of my life technology had not made advancements such as in the past 20 years or so. Sal Glesser so beautifully responded to one my posts by pointing out this fact. :thumbup: We had pocket knives, and we had fixed blade knives, both needed to be carried to the woods, or on a camp out.

Looking at a folder of today, they were not intended to be a thrusting tool (notwithstanding the Balisong), a prying tool, or a campfire tool never have never will. Most are a thing of beauty, but nonetheless a tool which may come into play putting meat on the table, survival, and accomplishing various chores around a camp and daily life, thus eliminating the need for a fixed blade knife to some degree. However, “what if” raises its ugly head, and what if your folder fails. Moving parts tend to fail over time no matter how well made they are. Use the proper tool intended for the job at hand. You don’t use a pair of water pump pliers in place of an end wrench unless you don’t have one, so why use your folder to split firewood?

Conversely, a fixed blade knife will do all the chores a folder will and then some. No it’s not compact, easy to carry/conceal, but it is available at a moment’s notice. Unless you simply break the blade out of it, it’ll be there every time you reach for it. You can thrust with it, slash with it, make kindling with it, survive with it, and most certainly put meat on the table with it. So following that line of thought, why need a folder? I’ll tell you why I think you do. Backup, convenience, and the size of the job!!! Nothing replaces a good folder for the jobs intended.

We all laughed among ourselves when a new comer came to deer camp. If he had a knife hanging on his belt which was a “knee knocker” we all knew he was a new comer to hunting as well as our camp. One of them asked me one time if I was going hunting that morning. I responded by asking why he asked. I thought it was evident I was perfectly prepared to go to the woods. My .44 Magnum handgun was hanging under my left arm, and I carried three knives, only one of which he could see and it was only had a 4” fixed blade. He didn’t see a bunch of gear, a big knife, and a rifle hanging on me, so he thought I wasn’t going out that morning. A good locking folder occupied the right pocket, a small slip-joint occupied the left pocket, and my fixed blade hung on the left side for a quick cross draw.

This brings me to a conclusion; I carry both, at least one excellent folder which I can reach readily, and a fixed blade every time I go to the woods. The young’uns knew this and they were always wanting to borrow a cutting tool. You don’t know how many Buck’s I gave away around the campfire in 25 years just for that reason. Some may disagree with my “old school” thinking, but I feel if you’re away from home, out in nature, and could encounter trouble, carry both a good folder and a good fixed blade. Today’s technology has provided a world of fine cutlery, and all intended to handle a wide range of jobs. (Don’t forget another good reason….there is still “pride in ownership” even if you never use the piece, that’s why most of us nuts have a rack of knives that our wives do not envy).:D Anyone got any other ideas along these lines?
 
I carry both, S1 fixed blade and a Native folder..I have a rifle rack on my old Ford 4x4 (old school)..I start my fires the old way, (diamond heads dipped in wax)..
My hunting buddy starts his Presto logs with a bic lighter...
I don't care how you get things done in my camp, just as long things get done. No whining is all i ask..
 
Diamond heads.....hmmmm hadn't thought of those things in years. Thanks for the memory! I carried a 12ga. spent shell with a 20 ga. spent stuck inside of it, full of them.:) That was back when my first fixed blade was a Puma White Hunter stag. I thought there wasn't another knife in the world as good as mine!
 
I can agree with many of the things you said there. :thumbup:

But personally, I see absolutely no reason to carry a folding knife if I already have a fixed blade. A multitool is a different issue - I may carry one of those even if I have a backpack full of fixed blades. The only advantage a folding knife has compared to a fixed blade is the size. And if you have a small fixed blade, then the size advantage is so minimal it's really not worth even considering to me. Concealment? A small fixed blade is very easy to conceal indeed. I don't need it to be any easier. It's also much faster to draw and reach quickly, if need be, and you won't have to fumble around with opening the knife - especially if you're trying to cut a cord or doing something else that requires one of your hands, opening a folder can be quite a pain, especially if it's not a one-handed opening folder. Some may consider the small blade of a folder more practical for some uses, but I haven't encountered any such uses, considering that I have the ability to carry small fixed blades. Fixed blades, unless they're simply poorly desgined, have much better ergonomics than any folder, which is a good thing in prolonged use. And if we're really talking about tradition, then fixed blades are certainly more traditional. Folding knives are a relatively new invention compared to fixed blades which have been around just about as long as man has been able to make primitive tools. There is a reason they haven't disappeared. I may find aesthetic value in well made folders, but that's about it. In use, they are worth little to me, as compared to a fixed blade. My recommendation to anyone possibly going out far from home and potentially into harm's way is to carry what they are comfortable carrying and know how to use, but preferably a fixed blade, and preferably more than one. A folder? If you feel like it, but there's absolutely no need for it, if you have a fixed blade. Always good to have a backup - but in my case, that backup is going to be a fixed blade, as well. No use carrying a knife that's already broken in half. ;) I realize many will disagree with me, but ain't that just the way things go. :)
 
Well, let me start by confessing that I'm no longer a hunter.
I'm just not interested in hunting these days.
However, I still like to fish, camp, and hike, and I do spend as much time in the woods as I can.
In the past, when I was younger, I carried all kinds of knives: fixed-blades, folders, axes, machetes, tomahawks, bowie knives, etc....
Here's some things I've learned over the years:

The least experienced guy will usually have the biggest knife....and it will usually be a fixed-blade, machete, or axe.

Most folks who carry a large fixed-blade, or a machete, or an axe will not be able to resist the urge to chop something....usually a living tree.
I don't know why, but when one carries a large blade, there is a strangely powerful compulsion to use it.

A folder is all that I really need in the woods.
My multi-tool, or my swiss army knife, have been a thousand times more useful than any fixed-blade that I have ever lugged around the woods.

I've never even onced needed to split firewood or chop down a tree.

In my opinion, folks carry fixed-blades mostly for two reason:
1) Romantic/heroic notions of the pioneering days.
2) As a security blanket to chase away the boogeyman.
 
allenC said:
In my opinion, folks carry fixed-blades mostly for two reason:
1) Romantic/heroic notions of the pioneering days.
2) As a security blanket to chase away the boogeyman.
Click to expand...

You won't miss it until you need it. . .
 
I've always preferred the looks and feel of a good fixed blade - but the functionality is what keeps me carrying one. I'm into inexpensive knives(Mora's mostly) and it just seems there are more cheap fixed blades that are quality peices than cheap folders worth their weight. Any folder i've used always got that sloppy wobble in the blade after time. Or had dirt-build up in the cracks, or just fail in general. Thats obviously because i've purchased inexpensive folders but - my fixed blades always seem more reliable. I only keep small ones(4'' blade max) so it isn't about being Rambo or whatever.

Plus for cleaning game(fish, small animals) fixed blades just don't seem as sanitary to me. The blood and fur gets into the little nooks and crannies and it's a pain in the ass to get out - and why should i even have to? With a fixed blade i can just wash it out.

The only folders i Really enjoyed were opinels and a large simple buck folder my buddy used the first time i saw a deer skinned. Seemed rugged but slim.
 
allenC said:
The least experienced guy will usually have the biggest knife....and it will usually be a fixed-blade, machete, or axe.

Most folks who carry a large fixed-blade, or a machete, or an axe will not be able to resist the urge to chop something....usually a living tree.
I don't know why, but when one carries a large blade, there is a strangely powerful compulsion to use it.

In my opinion, folks carry fixed-blades mostly for two reason:
1) Romantic/heroic notions of the pioneering days.
2) As a security blanket to chase away the boogeyman.
Click to expand...

Yes, I somewhat agree - it does seem that the inexperienced guys will either a) carry an impractically huge knife, or b) carry no knife at all and keep bothering you to borrow yours to them.

But I have to wonder how, when people speak about fixed blades, so many seem to assume that "fixed blades" means "large fixed blades." I'm sure no one in this forum thinks all fixed blades are large, so where does the whole thing come from? If I want a small knife, there are small fixed blades, and they are generally both cheaper and far more reliable than folders. So why would I go for a folder? To have something to stretch down my pockets perhaps? To look "non-military"? To look like an expert outdoorsman who doesn't need a fixed blade? :confused:
 
Oldscrimmer, I think you covered that well. Since I'm nearly always in town now, I normally only carry pocketknives. But I always keep a couple of fixed blade knives in my vehicle, too. Besides my ever present SAK, I usually have one or two other pocketknives on me to supplement my Victorinox Farmer.
 
Well I don't gun hunt and don't go to anyone's camp. What I carry when in the woods hunting is my fixed blade either my very old Cold Steel MH which I absolutely love or an old Gerber tool steel 425 I think it is. Older than the MH. Don't really carry a pocket clip knife when hunting. In my Catquiver I'll carry a pruner or small pack saw probably both. Then a lunch or something like that. Thats it. keepem sharp
 
It can go either way, fixed blade or folder. Like many things, it all depends on where you are and what your doing.

I haven't hunted in over 20 years, but when I did I used a simple 3 1/2 inch sheath knife. It is a bit easier to keep clean from blood and fur. It is a more fail proof tool.

I still fish, camp, kayak and canoe, and ramble around the woods. For most of my needs a pocket knife does what I need to do. However, sometimes thing don't go just as you thought, so I still have a mora in my daypack, as well as a Fiskars sliding blade saw. I can't remember the last time I used the mora sheath knife for anything, but I know its still in the pack.

But for alot of walks I don't bother carrying the pack, then its up to just what I have in my pockets. Again, it depends on where you are. I feel well equipted with one or two good folders like a sak and an Opinel. Shelter? You don't really need much of a knife to build a debris hut out of materials laying around. Thrusting? I have'nt had a fencing match with any bushes in my life. Honest. If your talking about self defense, then you're getting into another entire subject. I don't intend to thrust with any knife if I have to defend myself. If its a stray dog or rabid racoon then thats what the stout hornbeam hiking staff is for. If its two legged varmit, then pepper spray or a J frame Smith and Wesson is more what I'll press into service.

Aside from hunting, I can't think of anything my pocket knives have not been able to handle just fine. And thats after a lifetime of outdoors activities starting with the boy scouts when I was 12. If my pocket knife is not enough tool, then maybe its time for a small hatchet or 12 inch Ontario machete. I just don't have any use for a sheath knife between 5 and 10 inches.

I think a person can get by just fine with only a folder or two on them. Many of our ancestors got by with just a sharp stone flake, but they knew what they were doing. It just calls for a more carefull use of the most important tool you always have on you. That thing between your ears.:D
 
When camping, I have a fixed blade paired with a multitool. As others have implied, the multitool does the light tasks of a folder with the added benefit of additional implements. Most of the time, my camping blade needs are light duty enough that a folder would work just fine, but I enjoy a modest sized fixed blade, and I find them easier to keep clean than a folder when using them with food, etc.

When I'm going about my daily business, I have a multiool paired with a some kind of folder - lately I'm favoring traditional slipjoints. Sometimes, I carry a very small fixed blade in a pocket sheath instead.
 
For me it depends on weather and what I intend to do. If it's spring and I want to walk around and take photographs, I most likely won't even need a knife, so my EDC folders will cover it. But right now with things starting to freeze and the snow piling up, it can be difficult to find dry, suitable fuel for a fire. I usually carry a large fixed blade of some sort so I can just baton a log into various sized pieces and have all the firewood I need in a few minutes work.

The large, tough tacticals can handle this kind of work pretty easily, but if I know I'm going to be doing this it makes sense to carry a tool more suitable for the job. I can pound on a kuhkuri all day without concern for lock failures or loosening pivots.
 
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