gravity/inertia knives

[misterjuiceman]

would the benchmade 960 be considered inertia or gravity knives? after watching some videos on youtube, it seems like they can be deployed by just depressing the axis lock and flicking your wrist. i'm concerned it might not be legal in some jurisdictions. can the pivot screw be tightened up on these knives so that they don't easily flick open?

 

[Murphyslaw]

Considered by whom?... Over 10 years ago a close friend was stopped by a NJ State Trooper (IIRC), who considered my friend's Gerber Bolt Action, a gravity knife. My understanding is that criminal law, while drafted broadly, are meant to be construed narrowly. This doesn't always work where the "rubber meets the road"...

 

[phaserrifle]

depending on the laws, pretty much all one handed opening knives can be considered a gravity/inertia knife. excluding lockbacks, allmost all other types can be flicked open while holding the handle (liner locks and frame locks are good for this) and most can be opened using the spyder drop technique, which can be interpreted as a inertia opening.

it all depends on exactly how the law is written (eg does it require a catch or button on the handle of the knife) and even more on how the LEO/customs officer/courts interperet that law.

course, most laws allow for a charge of "possesion of an offenceive weapon" so even if it's technicaly not an illegal type of knife, they can, if they really wan't to get you, just say it's intended as a weapon, and get you that way.

 

[bikeknife]

in NYC a axis lock will most defiantly get you in trouble, no matter what the law says they will not like it and will give you a TON of grief. when I say a TON I mean handcuffs and the whole 9 yards. NYC is one of the worst places to be sure but still be careful!!! I speak from experience

 

[tom19176]

bikeknife I assume you were entering the subway, they saw your pocket clip and it went down hill from there? To the OP, yes in many areas they would be considered gravity knives and can lead you into alot of trouble. What state are you in?

 

[rifon2]

To the OP, yes in many areas they would be considered gravity knives and can lead you into alot of trouble. What state are you in?

And not only what state are you in, but what city/town/village are you in?

Those smaller jurisdictions within any particular state might have their own (more restrictive) laws regarding knife carry.

 

[john w]

rifon2 that is dead-on-the-point true (experience speaking)...

WOOK

 

[Centurian]

As stated before it is how the law is written. Some laws will state that a gravity knife would not apply to a knife with a disk, thumb stud or opening hole where that knife is designed to be opened with a thumb not gravity or flick of the wrist. Most tactical type folders have some type of the above ways to open the knife. "Flicking" the knife is acquired skills my 92 year old grandmother cannot flick open one of my folders. Just because it can be flicked does not necessarily mean it is a gravity knife. Just as pulling the trigger really fast does not make a semi automatic a full auto.

Now I have seen where someone removed the thumb stud and the DA filed charges of a gravity knife because it is no longer "designed" to be a one hand opening knife with the stud.

 

[tom19176]

rifon, I agree that local laws can be more restrictive, but if the state law bans it, then it is banned everywhere with in the state. Centurian, I have seen many cases where as long as the officer can flick it open in front of the ADA or Judge the knife has been deemed a gravity knife. The assumption is that person carrying would not show the court he can open it that way, but the fact that it can be opened that way is all that matters. In NY, the fact that it was designed to open via a thumb stud or flipper does not prevent the gravity knife charge if it can still be flicked open.

 

[Centurian]

Tom:

That is interesting and a "bit scary" that there have been convictions on the fact that if the officer can flick it open then it's a gravity knife. Out in CA I know when reading those sections it makes exceptions for knives "designed" to be opened by thumbstud, hole, opening disk.

Again, Id argue it's an aquired skill. A gravity knife of itself requires no skill just Newton's little law of such. Turn it over and let gravity take care of the rest.

I too have seen some crazy stuff where DA"s filed charges for a folder that was open claiming it is now a "fixed blade". Humm...no I think that is a folder with a locking device but a fixed blade is just that "fixed".

I go round and round with people at work over this stuff. A "hammer" being a club/baton. Really?? I would think it is just a hammer. And if the police get called there you usually got a lot more then a prohibited weapon. Assault with a deadly weapon, we can all agree that a claw hammer is a deadly weapon, brandishing, heck if used maybe attempted murder. I find too many people try to find a "charge" when the law works when you just read it LOL.

 

[rifon2]

And not only what state are you in, but what city/town/village are you in?

Those smaller jurisdictions within any particular state might have their own (more restrictive) laws regarding knife carry.

rifon, I agree that local laws can be more restrictive, but if the state law bans it, then it is banned everywhere with in the state.

Tom, that is obvious.
The point I was making was that even if the state does NOT ban the type of knife, jurisdictions within the state might still do so.

Centurian, I have seen many cases where as long as the officer can flick it open in front of the ADA or Judge the knife has been deemed a gravity knife. The assumption is that person carrying would not show the court he can open it that way, but the fact that it can be opened that way is all that matters. In NY, the fact that it was designed to open via a thumb stud or flipper does not prevent the gravity knife charge if it can still be flicked open.

But in NY, the knife has to be "flickable" and 'lock upon opening' in order to be deemed a "gravity knife".
Simply being "flickable" does not in and of itself make a knife a gravity knife in NY.

But as to the OP, since Axis lock knives are "flickable" and 'lock upon opening', they would be deemed "gravity knives" in NY (and, I would guess, in other states with similarly worded statutes).

 

[tom19176]

rifon, in NYC if a knife can be flicked and does not lock then it will be most likely ruled a dangerous knife. There is case law in other parts of NY that have stated a butterfly knife is not a gravity knife since it does not lock open, but the NYPD legal division has stated it is flicakble and designed as a weapon therefore a dangerous knife ( same chager under 265.01). The axis lock has already been ruled as a gravity knife in NYC. As for the Federal law this is the defintion of a switchblade:
(b) The term ''switchblade knife'' means any knife having a blade
which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the
handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both"

There is no locking requirment in it. I spent too many years in court watching CPW convictions for knives. In all but the real trial, the knife itself is never even in court, so the officer's testimony is what the judge is considering, unless there was a evidence call made prior to the court date.
"

 

[rifon2]

rifon, in NYC if a knife can be flicked and does not lock then it will be most likely ruled a dangerous knife. "

It might or might not, depending upon its size, intended purpose, etc., but then it's not a "gravity knife" under the statute.

The axis lock has already been ruled as a gravity knife in NYC.

Yes, as I noted in my previous post, Axis Lock knives fit the State's definition perfectly. They're easily "flickable" and lock upon opening, so of course they're "gravity knives" in NYS (and in other jurisdictions as well).

As for the Federal law this is the defintion of a switchblade:
(b) The term ''switchblade knife'' means any knife having a blade
which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the
handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both"

There is no locking requirment in it.

Though federal switchblade knife law (and NYS's own switchblade knife law) state clearly that a switchblade knife must open "automatically" by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife.

And NYS's own gravity knife law, which we've been discussing here, says essentially that the knife must be "flickable" and 'lock upon opening'.

(But, as I'm sure you know, just about any knife which 'locks upon opening' is illegal in NY.)

 

[misterjuiceman]

The axis lock has already been ruled as a gravity knife in NYC.

I wouldn't carry a Swiss Army Knife in NYC.

 

[rifon2]

Is there an easy way to find knife laws for specific counties? I know how to find them for the states but haven't been able to find anything for that.

Many counties don't have their own knife laws. If a county does have its own knife laws, they would most likely show up on Google and/or FindLaw.
Otherwise, you'd have to search one of the proprietary (paid) law databases.

 

[john w]

Here the "gravity" and also "inertia" is written into the "switchblade" law that prohibits the possession, sale, manufacture, etc. of such a knife. The law, to me, uses the two terms "gravity and inertia" to partly define (if you want to call it that) a "switchblade" but does not define the two terms themselves thus being grossly vague.

 

[misterjuiceman]

According to this, http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/fedswitch.txt, gravity knives are considered swtich blades in the eyes of the federal government. wouldn't this mean that if benchmade axis lock knives are legal in the united states in general, they'd have to be legal everywhere since they don't fall under the category of gravity knife? (the federal government definition seems to be the same as most states')

 

[tom19176]

rifon, we are both saying the same thing, so I am not looking to argue with you, but if you have not, then spend a few days in a NYC court. You have better luck winning the lottery than finding a judge who doesn't think every knife is a "dangerous knife" when he is holding it is his hands in the court room. There have been very few times that a judge ( in Brooklyn-very liberal) where the judge has believed a knife not to be a gravity knife, but in a few of those he deemed it to be a dangerous knife and the charge stuck...

 

[Centurian]

OK, for my forum brothers on the east coast I got some questions? So do people in NYC not carry Spyderco's or Benchmades ect? Is the law applied all the time or when ever they selectively want to? By that I am asking if your just normal every day citizen cruising down Main St. and a police officer sees a pocket clip in your pants can and do people get stopped (detained) or arrested?

Or is it a law that is used and applied to "selected" individuals, meaning if the cop thinks the person looks rather undesirable and they have the knife they can stop detain and perhaps arrest that person if for nothing else then the knife?

 

[tom19176]

Centurian, in NYC the law is most strongly enforced by the Transit division of the NYPD ( Subways mostly), however it is enforced everywhere and many middle age white males have been charged with CPW being the only charge. The NYPD feels weapons arrest are a great response to a robbery spike in an area, so if there were two or three robberies on Tuesday night, there will be ten "weapons" arrest the next day to show action has been taken. Where do you think all those weapons are found....pocket clips...belt sheaths....etc, and never think there are not quotas. Most CPW ( criminal possession of a weapon) where the weapon is a knife are made in the last half of the month...