Gravity knife question

[Buck knives I like]

Does the spyderco hole in the spyderco folding knives make them fall under the gravity knife category even though, it lists gravity knives as assisted by a button, trigger, or fulcrum. What about a spyderco hole. Thanks. Edit: By the way I am guessing yes.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

You need to look at the wording of your local law. What we consider this or that doesn't really matter right?

It's not like you can point to a thread in court and say "but but but the knife nuts on blade forums said so your honor!"

I don't consider them gravity knives though.

 

[Goosey]

Like Strigamort said, you should post the actual law. It depends, many Spydercos are seized as gravity knives, in more than one case, even non-locking UKPKs. AS far as I know it has nothing to do with the Spyderhole though.

 

[Jaytaylor]

I guess the goal post has moved on what defines a gravity knife. They are typically an OTF design with a catch or button to release the blade which will fall out from the handle under gravity alone if held with the blade pointing down.

Gravity knives are assisted by only gravity. Seizing other folders under this category just seems ridiculous.

 

[Bigfattyt]

In many jurisdictions, if the officer can, through any Herculean efforts, get the blade to deploy by a wrist flick and flip, it will be seized as a gravity knife!

In my jurisdiction, if the knife can be opened with hand motion (flick, twist, etc), then it is a "gravity" knife.

I have knives that I tighten the pivot on for this reason.

 

[res1cue]

In many jurisdictions, if the officer can, through any Herculean efforts, get the blade to deploy by a wrist flick and flip, it will be seized as a gravity knife!

This

Spydercos may or may not be considered gravity knives, but I dont think it is the hole that cause it to be defined as it. Actually the hole may help by reducing the momentum of the blade while attempting said Herculean efforts

 

[evilgreg]

As Bigfattyt points out above, a motivated LEO may claim any knife that can be eventually opened with only arm motion (read, most folders) is a gravity knife. I've seen a Wisconsin cop flail around like he was having a seizure, failing on the first fifteen or twenty tries before finally getting a tightened down blade to swing ninety percent open (didn't lock) and then declaring it a "deadly gravity knife".

Knife laws tend to be vague and intent driven in most states, so they can be used as bonus charges when someone does something really wrong. In the hands of a random cop who happens to be a douche, the same vagueness can be a giant pain in the ass.

A bigger problem problem for Spyderco owners is that the terms "Spyderco Drop" and "Spyderdrop" exist at all, and that numerous sources describe this is a high-speed opening method that doesn't even require touching the knife handle (ooh, scary). I believe there is case law in which this was used against someone in NYC at some point to declare their Spydie an auto, making it even more likely to be used against someone else as our courts love citing previous decisions. It's silly, of course, as you can open a Buck 110 by grabbing it by the blade and letting the handle fall open, equally scary stuff. The law is a funny thing though, a silly, goofy, hilarious thing that some donut-munching thug can use to destroy your life if you have the bad luck to run into them.

 

[ridnovir]

if you are in NYC you are out of luck any folder (except slip-joints) is against the law
but I do not care a rats arse about that law
just keep it in the pocket (not clipped to the pocket)

 

[tirod3]

The issue is really one of interpretation. "Gravity" has a meaning - and manipulating a knife to open due to it's inherent inertia may not be gravity at all. Flicking, brownie popping, whatever - if you hold the knife still and only allow gravity to influence it, then only a "gravity" knife will open when the blade is released.

If anything, a gravity knife is less dangerous to open and less a weapon. True OTF gravity knives are actually restrictive in deployment, and those who use them with "inertia" methods are the ones abusing them. They also have ugly blade to handle ratios, rattle, and have fatter handles than the common clipped pocket knife. They are mostly preferred at that stage of immaturity when boys like to be scary and intimidating to impress their buddies.

If you look at the laws, how officer discretion is used, and why they are persecuted, look to who's carrying them. On the street, busted. On a lanyard cord attached to your web gear during a parachute jump, just a necessary tool. They are one type of knife preferred for that kind of dynamic reentry to Earth. The rest of us use folders.

 

[Sharpnessis]

In NYS the law says, any knife that can be opened by "centrifugal force" AND locks open, is a gravity knife.

 

[Buck knives I like]

NEW YORK STATE LAW


Updated 7/18/2008 10/27/2005 3/15/06

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a
citizen of the United States...
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A
misdemeanor.

- Section 265.00 Definitions...
4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife
which has a blade which opens automatically by hand
pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in
the handle of the knife.
5. "Gravity knife" means any
knife has blade which is released from the handle or
sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application
of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other
device. [Note: In NYC, and potentially in other NY
jurisdictions, this definition is construed to apply to
ANY folding knife with a blade that locks open. ]
5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which
has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other
device in the handle of the knife.
5-b. "Metal knuckle knife"
means a weapon that, when closed, cannot function as a set of
metal knuckles, nor as a knife and when open, can function as
both a set of metal knuckles as well as a knife.

 

[frenchmade]

in reality, using the hole for a spyderdrop is not gravity, but inertia. The only real "gravity knife" is a balisong, which will swing open if you only hold one handle. This, of course, does nothing to make the actual knife any more dangerous. Same goes for the spyder hole...
But, as with most laws of this nature, they are defined by very loose definitions with the explicit purpose of letting cops get away with robbing people of their tools, then fining them to within an inch of their lives. It all depends on where you live.

 

[Jaytaylor]

A gravity knife (assuming working correctly) does not require any additional force to open, gravity alone will drop the blade from the handle, hence gravity.
The "gravity knife" is the common name for the WW2 knives issued to German paratroopers and I believe are still issued today or at least up to the 80s.

A balisong technically is not a gravity knife as it requires additional force to open, a flick or swing of the arm.

Classing locking folders or even slip joints (assuming not extremely loose) as gravity knives in order to seize them is laughable.

I can just see the scenario -

Customs official sees a nice fancy looking knife with a marked value of $500, looks enticing....ok now apply a 4G down ward swing with the knife and bring to a sudden halt thus generating a massive amount of force to overcome the inertia of the blade & surprise surprise, the blade swings out and locks open. Clearly a gravity knife requiring 1G to open without any rapid deceleration and into pocket it goes.

 

[tom19176]

As stated a few times, it depends on the wording of the law where you live. You should also look for case law that may have reviewed the actual written law, and given direction to how it is enforced. As to NY law and even NYC law, not all locking blades are instant gravity knives. There are some ( not many but some) that are totally non flickable. These are not illegal in NYC as long as they have under a 4" blade and are not carried with the intent to use as a weapon or have a design that is primarily that of a weapon ( think tanto or dagger blade). All that said, I would only carry a slip joint folder if that at all in NYC and never exposed.....

This will really keep you up at night worrying ( the FEDERAL LAW):

(b) The term ''switchblade knife'' means any knife having a blade
which opens automatically -
(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the
handle of the knife, or
(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.


This is how the Federal Interstate Commerce Act defines a switchblade!!! The CUSTOMS ruling was addessed awhile back to clear up the importation of assisted openers, but the Interstate Commerce Act remains unchanged and it does include possession in US territories and Federal holdings.......