'gravity' knives

P

pizza_face

Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
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i have a little opinel pen-knife, but i have modified it so there is little blade resistance. it can be deployed with a wrist flick. you have to twist the collar at the top to lock/unlock the blade, but this is easily/quickly done one handed. is my knife now considered a 'gravity knife' in most places? just wondering, as it is my EDC.

has anyone gotten into any trouble with their old loose knife?
 
Welcome to Bladeforums! :)

Some jurisdictions will be more rigorous than others about this. As a general rule, Opinels will not get the scrutiny a tactical folder will, especially the smaller Opinels. A quiet, well-dressed adult will not get the scrutiny a loud youngster will.
 
my brother was arrested in NYC for carrying a benchmade 530 with the axis lock, the cops said it was a gravity knife, which it is not. It usually is up to the interpretation of the arresting officer, so be careful, cause even if you don't get convicted, you still could spend a night or two in jail because of it
 
killyourself038 said:
... the cops said it was a gravity knife, which it is not.
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It is not a gravity knife by our traditional definition, but it most definitely is by the definition the courts in NYC have adopted. Practically speaking, every locking folder can be interpreted as a gravity knife in New York City these days.

Welcome to the new nanny city, and thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, you fascist wretch.
 
from what i understand, if the locking mechanism is in direct contact with the blade, and it requires kinetic energy to open the knife, it is not a gravity knife?
 
A legal definition has nothing to do with a dictionary or an expert's opinion. It is strictly the result of what the legislature writes and the courts willl enforce.

In New York City, if a police officer can grasp the handle OR the blade and by swinging the knife however vigorously cause it to open and lock, you got a gravity knife there, boy, and that's against the law in this here town.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
A legal definition has nothing to do with a dictionary or an expert's opinion. It is strictly the result of what the legislature writes and the courts willl enforce.

In New York City, if a police officer can grasp the handle OR the blade and by swinging the knife however vigorously cause it to open and lock, you got a gravity knife there, boy, and that's against the law in this here town.
Click to expand...

Without going into too much detail, the NYS Penal Code defines what a gravity knife is, unlike other jurisdictions, where the definition is left ambiguour (or to technical terms). IN that definition, New York uses the term centrifugial force. That term has been interpreted by the courts as Esav described (if it locks and the hanle or blade can be flipped upen, it's a gravity knife). While the law could be prosecuted similarly upstate, it usually seems that the city is more vigerous in pursuing offenders. There is a number of factors that affect this- the War on Crime, a cultural stigma and fear of weapons, politics, etc...
 
The NY courts also decided to rewrite the definition of centrifugal.

It's about time that the citizens forced the courts to uphold the law instead of making it up as they go along.
 
Courts are entitled -- actually, required -- to define ambiguous terms to their own satisfaction, so long as they abide by those definitions fairly thereafter. It's called case law, and it's an integral part of the legal system.

If we think our responsibility towards governing this republic is to vote on election day and to whine on an internet forum, we aren't going to have a major impact on reality.

On the other hand, if every time we see a news story about something we don't like, we write a personal letter to every elected official in any way connected or responsible for the situation, we may begin to have an impact on those officials' thinking, legislators more than executive. (Never mind the President or the Governor or the Mayor.)

It is up to the legislatures to write laws that need little further interpretation by the courts. Sloppy legislation is the refuge of incpompetent legislators: supply them with knowledge and a draft of the language you'd like to see, and perhaps, ... well, who knows? AKTI has had some success with this approach.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
A legal definition has nothing to do with a dictionary or an expert's opinion. It is strictly the result of what the legislature writes and the courts willl enforce.

In New York City, if a police officer can grasp the handle OR the blade and by swinging the knife however vigorously cause it to open and lock, you got a gravity knife there, boy, and that's against the law in this here town.
Click to expand...

i'm sorry, but like i said, it is open to the interpretation of the arresting officer, and left to be sorted out in the court system.

from what you're saying, the officer would need to have the knife in his possession before he can determine whether or not it is illegal, and would need additional reasons to be searching a person, otherwise that would be an illegal search and seizure. I do know however, that if a person is found with a knife as well as drugs or drug paraphanelia, or in conjunction with another crime, that knife is automatically considered a concealed weapon in NYC, regardless of the type. Also, in the case of determining whether or not a knife is a concealed weapon, the law states the intent of the person carrying it must be taken into account (work knife), unless said knife is an automatic, a gravity knife, or a fixed blade that is concealed, etc... and, NEVER say that you are carrying it for self defense. I will update when my brother's case has been tried, he just had a hearing this week and his lawyer even said it wasn't a gravity knife.
 
First of all, in New York City, the law requires every knife to be carried concealed. Completely concealed, which means not even the clip can be visible. If the officer sees the clip, there's your legal search.

Since your brother's knife is an axis lock, it is a gravity knife, even by the old definition: pull back the axis lock and the blade drops out to fall into locking position. If the officer could open and lock the blade by swinging it, it is a gravity knife according to the court. The lawyer in this case may not know what he's talking about.

Of course an officer could decide that hassling an otherwise obviously good guy isn't worth anyone's time, and tell him to put it deep in his pocket and have a nice day. But if he feels it falls within the guidelines he's been given, yes, he could bring him in.
 
Which boro was he arrested in? What were the circumstances of the arrest? How was the knife discovered?
 
Flicking a knife open doesn't use centrifugal force at all (no matter how you spell it), what's happening is inertia in combination with movement in more than one direction...totally different.

Our court system is supposed to be about truth.
 
Our court system is supposed to be about applying the law. That can be a complex business. Since the law is often written sloppily, the courts need to apply definitions consistently that do not contradict the law.

Whatever words they use, trust me on this: playing lawyer when you're called out for carrying a knife accepted to be in violation isn't going to impress the police or the courts.
 
tom19176 said:
Which boro was he arrested in? What were the circumstances of the arrest? How was the knife discovered?
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he was arrested in the bronx. pulled over for a "dim" tailight, he hasn't been very forthcoming with the details, but he said nypd pulled him over because his tailight was out, he got out of the car to show the cops it worked, which it did but it was very dim, and they said too bad its not good enough, he got searched and got locked up.
 
The Bronx is not as bad for knife arrest as Manhattan, but still the NYC anti knife feeling is there......was it clipped so they could see it? If he had stayed in the car it would most likely been a summons that he had 24 hours to fix the light without a fine. Getting out gave them a right to perform a weapons check on him and I will assume he may have given them an attitiude....
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Our court system is supposed to be about applying the law. That can be a complex business. Since the law is often written sloppily, the courts need to apply definitions consistently that do not contradict the law.

Whatever words they use, trust me on this: playing lawyer when you're called out for carrying a knife accepted to be in violation isn't going to impress the police or the courts.
Click to expand...
Naturally, a desire to uphold the actual laws is unpopular with the corrupt police and courts.

Fortunately, I'm not the only one who does not think that the police and the courts can do no wrong. Criminal behavior by two groups of thugs who are making their own rules is completely unacceptable to me. And it should be to you as well.

Just because a group of people has made a habit of preying upon innocent citizens in no way makes it the right thing to do.

Not too long ago, this country stood in front of the entire globe and did the right thing and defeated evil. Not because it was easy, or convenient, or a source of cash, but because it was righteous. That the evil now comes from within our own country in the form of public servants makes it no less vile, and no less urgent.

There are alot of veterans on this board who, like me, swore to uphold and defend the Constitution. That meant something to us. It still does.

Just because the police and courts have chosen forget the Constitution and Truth and Fairness and genuine Justice does not mean the rest of us have.

Or ever will.
 
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