Grind lines, plunge cuts and false edges oh my

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

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Sep 28, 2005
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Okay, sorry for the lame title, but I wanted to bring up an issue that has concerned me for a while, and has come to the forefront recently. While I understand the skill needed to produce large, clear grind lines personally I feel that they are often detrimental to actually using a knife. Perhaps it is because I need nice hands for my current career and no longer have working calluses, but crisp grind lines can hurt. If a knife is to be for display only then fine make them as deep as possible, but if it is a user those ridges get in the way. I have experienced it with slip joints, folders and fixed blades. I have had plunge grinds that could score paper, what good is that when choking up on the blade. If using the tip of my knife I don't want the false edge on a clip to leave indents in my fingers.

My focus is on using knives, even pretty ones, and to me a maker should be more interested in making sure that their product can cut, than making sure that they can show off perfect grind lines. Of course I am often in the minority when it comes to likes and dislikes, so it won't surprise me too much if I am in the minority concerning crisp lines. I have never seen the topic of too crisp of grinds brought up and thought it might make some interesting discussion.

Are there any practical reasons for crisp lines? Wouldn't they be more susceptible to stress risers as a result, seeing as any sharp angles should be avoided?

P.S. I still want straight bevels etc. just not sharp ones.
 
As for concern about stress risers, I doubt an outside corner makes much difference if it's sharp or not. Of course, it does matter on an inside curve like tang shoulders and sharpening notches.

I try to start out with a nice crisp transition from ricasso to plunge, but they generally end up smoothed out a bit from my hand-sanding. From now on I will use your points to explain it as a design feature :D

Seriously though, I think your points are valid and worth discussing.
 

Are there any practical reasons for crisp lines?

Crisp grind lines are indicative of a makers grinding skills. If you put a knife up for sale with rounded plunge cuts or a swedge without the sought after clean edge, your work would be seen as mediocre.
I don't think this would be considered a practical reason but if you want to market what you make these days, it seems to me very practical.
Fred
 
Just for the sake of discussion, there was once a time when convex bevels and anything less than a pure mirror finish were seen by many as the mark of a rank amateur. Now many customers diligently seek out makers who specialize in convexed and/or hand-rubbed blades.
 
The reason is pride of workmanship.
Anyone can make a rudimentary knife-like object.
 
I have done and occasionally still do historically-based pieces, and they usually don't look right to me with super-crisp grind lines and plunges, so I do deliberately gentle these areas off on those types of pieces.
On my more typical user knives I do feel that every surface but the cutting edge should be availible as a user interface, which is why I round the spine and you will rarely see a false edge on a user from me. I am like James and do a lot of hand finish work on most of my blades so they may be less crisp than a perfect machine finish but are well defined, IMO, just well finished also.
 
Thanks for the conversation so far guys. Bill, my point in this is that at some point to me the pride of manufacture detracts from the usability of the object and as such, to me, brings down the overall value and quality. A case of looks detracting from effectiveness. Good thing for me that there are many makers not as concerned or who take the edge off of everything but the edge. If I wanted to cut with multiple parts of a knife I would use my a multi-blade slipjoint.

I always close my eyes and run my hand over all parts that are not edge for a while to see if anything catches my attention and then remove said offender in what I make as well as what I receive.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS, I was thinking/wondering the same as you. All those sharp, crisp lines and grinds may be a sign of skill, but I much preffer softer contours and transitions on any knife I would actually use.

Guess it would not matter on a blade you only want for display, but often the first thing I do with a newly purchased knife is to round off, and soften any sharp grinds that bug me. Also I plan to try my hand at knife making soon, and I can tell you that at this point I'm not too concerned about getting as many sharp edges as I can on one knife. ....not that I'm saying I even could at this point!

People like different things, and knives can have more than one purpose, so to my thinking, sharp crisp grinds and lines matter to some collectors, and may be a point of pride to some makers, but I agree that they can be a deterrent to people who are after function. Pluss aesthetically, I actually do preffer some nicely rounded edges, and even see the visual appeal in somewhat "rough" finished blades.

Just my opinion though.
 
Having cut myself before on the spine of a factory made knife I'm more inclined to go for eased edges most places a person would touch. Maybe not rounded, but at least take a swipe with a fine grit to take the edge off. I'm all for a nice crisp and clean grind on the bevel, that angle's not going to do any damage, but the plunge doesn't need to be sharp, just clean. Likewise the spine. A false edge can have very crisp lines but ease the spine there as well. I'm talking so slight a change you can't even really see it, just feel it.
 
I don't like false edges unless they're actually sharpened, which I guess makes them swedges. :confused: A nicely ground and tapered blade is plenty stabby without an extra grind to weaken the tip.

I do like a nice crisp edge on a spine if it's going to be used for drawing sparks off of a firesteel. But that type of knife might well be asked to baton wood, in which case an eased or crowned spine is better. I don't care much for sharpening "notches" but they work really well with firesteels, allowing for both uses in one knife.

What I'm getting at is... let the client decide. He's the one who has to use the dang thing, and pay for it, make him what he wants.
 
Great topic.
Aren't knives kind of like jewelry, you like them partly because of what's pretty about them, and that isn't always the same thing that makes them great for actual practical use?
There are a lot of great looking knives with stunning craftsmanship that I wouldn't want to carry no matter what the cost.
Andy
 
You can round off all the edges you want, and if done correctly the knife may look great. Poor grinding because of inexperience or the inability to do good, is poor grinding. Knives made for use need not have sharp edges where hand contact will be made. The edges can be "broken" The excuse "I did it this way because I like it better and it works better" done this way doesn't excuse the poor craftsmanship. If you think you what to sell crap then do that, but why is the push to obtain crisp grind lines and great finishing always talked about? Certainly it's not because that poorly ground blade is so in demand or that's been found to do a better job when used. Frank
 
Only the blade should be sharp!

I want all the lines clean and crisp where it is appropriate but I don't want to cut my thumb on the thumb ramp!
 
Rounding the spine's edges should be one of the many lessons learned as a new maker progresses.
If the person making the knife doesn't take into account how the knife will effect the hand that holds it and how the knife will perform, he has not progressed to the point where he truly understands his craft.
Knifemaking, should be, first and foremost about performance and all that it entails.

So pretty is fine but performance is everything.

Fred
 
I agree with the op. Guns are similar. You can pay extra for a melt job on a gun to make it more comfortable and in my opinion easier to shoot. Or it is a selling point on some new guns that are smooth from the factory. One of my favorite production knives is the Busse NMSFO, all "melted". I very much appriciate the smooth surfaces.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Rounding the spine's edges should be one of the many lessons learned as a new maker progresses.
If the person making the knife doesn't take into account how the knife will effect the hand that holds it and how the knife will perform, he has not progressed to the point where he truly understands his craft.
Knifemaking, should be, first and foremost about performance and all that it entails.

So pretty is fine but performance is everything.

Fred
Click to expand...

Well said Fred!

Daniel Fairly Knives said:
Only the blade should be sharp!
Click to expand...

For that matter, only the cutting edge should be sharp. Anything else is downright defective and unfinished.
 
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