"Grinder" questions--what's the diff?

S

Summerland

Joined
Oct 13, 1999
Messages
567
The knifemaking bug is starting to bite, so I've been following the discussions on BF, bought the Barney/Loveless book, etc.

I've done some searches on BF, but I'm too ignorant to know what to look for, so:

Here's my embarassing newbie question: I've seen the words "(flat) belt sander", "disk sander", "bench grinder", etc being used, and I really have no idea (a) how these differ from each other, and (b) which ones are used to do flat grinds or hollow grinds or blade profiling or all three. How many different kinds of machines can one make knives on?

Second question: what is both inexpensive and easy to use for the first-timer? If I do get something, I won't be spending a great deal of time on it for the next 5 years, so I don't need a real heavy-duty machine at this point--merely something to convince me that I want to do a great deal of knifemaking later!
 
Take it from someone who has tried the inexpensive route. It really does not work.
I just got in a Bader BIII grinder and it does everything. How I acquired it is by selling of some of my factory built knives that I really didn't feel I wanted anymore and voila! a new grinder was affordable. You can start with a homebuilt grinder or a fairly inexpensive grinder, but it will only give you the urge for a better one.

Marcel

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There are really 3 basic classes of grinders and a ton of variations in each one.
First off there is a bench Grinder. It is basically two abrasive wheels, 1 attached directly to each side of the motor. They're cheap, usually under $100, and can be used for hollow grinding. But they aren't the best for knifemaking because most of them lack enough clearance between the wheels and the motor to grind out a complete blade of any size. They don't give much precision either.
Then there are lots of different types of belt grinders. Alot of them use a 2x72 belt that can replaced and changed much easier than a wheel on a bench grinder. Some use different size contact wheels for hollow grinding and others have a flat platen for flat grinding.The good precision belt grinders like the baders and the wilton square wheel grinders are usually at about $1000. They are the best thing to have for making knives, especially if you want to make a lot of them.They run smoother, have more power and offer much more precision than you could ever get with a beltsander or a bench grinder.
Beltsanders are actually woodworking tools that can be used on metal. They use a belt too, but it is usually either a 4x36 or a 6x48. They have a larger working surface that is used for flat grinding.Most of them have a disc on the side that can be used for profiling the blade also. They are cheaper, between $100 and $300. They're pretty popular and a good way to start out. I have a 4x36 Delta that I think was $114, but I can't remember. Its a good machine and works pretty well, but gets the job done alot slower the more expensive grinders. Harbor Freight has a 6x48 that a lot of people say is good also. Think its around $200 or $250. Hope this helps.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Summerland, if you plan on flat grinding your blades, Harbor Freight sells a real nice 6 by 48 belt sander for around $175.It comes with a 9" disc also. If you buy the sander from them, absolutely do not buy their belts. They stink big time. You can get belts from G.L. Pearce Abrasives for around $2. Heres their number, 18009380021. I have a Wilton Square Wheel belt grinder, but use the 6 by 48 for all my flat grinding. It runs nice and slow which is the best way to go. Take care! Michael

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"

 
Hello,

Well i just finished my Video on Flat grinding,,,,and i did the whole Blade on my
295.00 GRIZZLY from GRIZZLY IMPORTS,,,its a great Grinder for the Money,,,,cant be beat!!
and it uses 2x72 inch belts.

I have Ground blades on every Grinder there is on the planet,,From Wiltons,to baders to Burr-kings, to the Old BLADMASTER Grinders,
To homemade models,to Core-lok Wheels.

Its not the Machine that makes for good Grinds,,, As long as it tracks true, has an Ajustment for Belt Drift,Flat Platen, and has a motor in the 1HP and up range,it`s the DEVELOPED Technique used in Grinding that makes or Breaks a Blade, and dont let any
Slaesman ,knifemaker,or other Tell you different.

you can go out and spend Thousands on High Tech expensive machines,and without a Solid Foundation in basic Knifemaking Skills, Grinding Techniques,Tricks, Ect..ect.
no amount spent will help you produce great knives.......i am speaking of the Average maker who doesnt Farm out his work to Piece work shops.

you want to get to the point to where no matter what the Grinder you use your knives end up the same for Grind and Finish.

I grind the same with the same results, and it doesnt matter if i am using my 295.00 grizzly or my 1200.00 Burr-king.

Also Flat grinding is achived on the Flat Platen of the grinder

And hollow grinding is achived on the main Rubber Contact wheel,just make sure its a Hard faced rubber WHeel in the 70 to 80
Durometer Range of hardness,,not the mushy
50 or 60 DURO junk most wheels come with,you will regret that choice.

my .02

Allen Blade


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Allen Blade
Spokane,WA USA

My Custom Knives :
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/meadows/1770/allenblade.html

[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 01-16-2000).]
 
Thanks, all! You have been extremely helpful!

Allen, I have a feeling I'll have to get your video or else find a maker in my area to watch; as with all the other good things in life, it always comes down to technique. I wondered why all the pictures of good knifemakers I've seen show this effortless expression on their face--the maker is smiling, hey, even the blade is smiling!
smile.gif

 
Allen, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your comments regarding the Grizzly grinder. Although I do not own a belt grinder per se, it is good to see that a relatively inexpensive grinder can fit the bill rather nicely. Many thanks. I seriously considered buying one, but held off for many reasons one of which was that some folks considered it sub-par for grinding blades. I may just have to get me one within the next few months.

Keep the ideas/info. coming! Some of us "sponges" can't get enough. 8)

>> DeWayne <<
 
Great info! I have used a 8 x 3 inch drum sander on a bench grinder, and would NOT reccomend it as a way to go. Why? Belt area is simply too little, belts wear out very quickly. but if you happen to have on already or can get one really cheap, then its a good way to get started and get your hand in. Also, do not disdain the small hardwheel bench grinders. You can do a lot on a six inch 1/4 HP grinder on small blades. the low power will require good, smooth technique to avoid stopping the grinder. and you are not limited to a hollowgrind. work with scrubbing the blade in a circular motion, or rocking it up and down. you can go a long way before you have to go the files, and save lots of time. to my way of thinking the lower power tools are a great place to learn. the big machines are sometimes just too much to soon too fast.
 
I started out with a 1x42 grinder, then modifily it to for 2x48 with a 8" contact wheel. Had trouble keeping the shaft from bending and causing the contact wheel to wobble. Finally bought a Burr King with all accessorys. Then just finished installing a DC motor. Everbody sayes how much better their are and now I know. I'am able to grind at a slow pace and do a better job.
I know that if i could have bought this set-up sooner i would have save money and headaches, but i guess i learn from my mistakes it only took 6 years.
I still use the first set-up but modifiled it to use 2x27 belts and I only profile with it.
 
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