How To Grinding bevels and how many knives will it take?

C

Coda759

Joined
Nov 3, 2021
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Hello! I just recently got into knife making as a somewhat serious hobby after my day job. I have invested some amount of money in it (not crazy though) and have been trying my absolute hardest to complete at least 1 blade.
I recently have upgraded from a tiny 1 x 30 belt grinder to a 2 by 48 grinder from jet (The Jet IBGB-248, please let me know if that is an alright grinder for knife making. I am not making anything very large, so the work rest is enough for me for now).
My main question is, granted I have a 9-5 job and I am brand new to this (So far I have ruined bevels on 6 blades) what would be the best approach to grinding actual bevels. I have watched a decent amount of videos on YouTube about it and I am not sure if that is helping. I am aware this is a trial and error process but just through how many knives did you guys and should I expect to go through before I will successfully bevel one?

Also forgive me if this question somehow violates some posting rules, literally just registered an account so hopefully I am posting this at the correct board
 
welcome to the forum. get some 1/4" plywood, cut out some profiles and practice on those first to get a general idea of what to do and how to hold the blade. what did you do to ruin those blades?
 
Welcome to BF Coda759. I can't speak for everyone else, but using the Bubble Jig has made a huge impact in my work. The trick is you need to develop muscle memory. The jig allows you to freehand while still giving you guidance. Use mild steel scraps to get the feel of things before you jump into knife steel.
 
john april said:
welcome to the forum. get some 1/4" plywood, cut out some profiles and practice on those first to get a general idea of what to do and how to hold the blade. what did you do to ruin those blades?
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So when beveling, most of the time what ends up happening are 3 things: I either I end up going too high up to the spine and not getting the result I want or also sometimes I would start too steep and end up actually rolling over the edge to another side and ruining the knife all together. I understand these are both problems with directing where the pressure needs to go, but my main problem is that I can't seem to get a consistent grip/stance with it (especially in my off hand). I also sometimes end up accidentally grinding off the tip. I buy steel from AlphaKnifeSupply and I currently only work with 1095 and 1084 steels because I know they are the most basic ones when it comes to heat treatment and I want to be able to do my own heat treating later too, but thats an entirely different story. The stocks that I get are .120 thick. Would that be too thin or is that fine?
 
I'm not going to open the freehand vs jigs can of worms here. Generally speaking, the amount of time it takes to start grinding clean bevels is directly proportionate to the time spent grinding bevels. The more you do it the better you are likely to get at it. Also, sharp belts will cut cleaner bevels. So when your belt gets dull swap it out for a fresh one. Some people have a knack for grinding bevels, some people have a longer learning curve. But the skill is attainable to everyone with the proper motivation and perseverance. Watch the videos, read the articles and forum posts. But it won't come to you until you spend enough time in front of a grinder. Find a skilled knife maker within driving distance and contact them. Ask if they would be willing to take a look at some of your work and give you some feedback and some pointers. If they offer a class, consider taking it.

1084, 80CrV2 and 5160 are pretty good for beginners. 1095 requires better heat control and might be better left until you have a little more experience and better equipment.
 
I remember about 30 to feel comfortable with it. Everyone is different. Earlier ones were not bad, but at 30, I could get them the same profile both sides, and the edge Centered consistently.
 
It takes practice, I suggest making or buying a jig to help with bevels. You should also apply line down center of blade to aim for on both sides using a sharpie and scribe, maybe two lines with thickness of a dime at last belt grain. Your machine should work ok but must practice, most use a 2x72. If you are planning heat treating, scratch 1095 if using forge, ok with an oven. 1095 needs pretty accurate temps and soak times. Honestly, keep practicing but believe you have skipped many hours of research.
You will get there and techniques will fall in place. Such a fun hobby.
One more suggestion, make knives bigger and it might just be what you need to fix over grinding. Fix until you like.
 
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Couple of things that helped me:

- use a hardened flat platten
- look over the blade to see the gap between the belt and the edge
- feel the bevel before you push into the grind
- work in smaller sections and blend them as you go
- find the center of the grind early (precise 45s) ane dont overgrind it
- grind full flat grinds but work on having a consistent grind lines as you work towards the top
- try the push stick and grinding rest method
 
Welcome to Bladeforums - Shop Talk.
Fill out your profile so we know where you are and a bit about you.

It take practice.
Things that will help:
Start with Full Flat Grinds (FFG). These go from edge to spine. Overgrinding just makes the blade a bit thinner, but not ruined.
2) Go slow. take a bit off and check. Switch sides and check. Sneak up on the bevel as it climbs to the spine.
3) Scribe centerlines on the edge and the spine. These will help you see when you are overgrinding.
4) Grind to shape and file/sand to finish. Don't try and do it all on the grinder.
5) Use fresh belts when needed. If it stops cutting good, change the belt.
6) Use light pressure. While we all love to see those guys who grab a bar of steel and cut a whole bevel in one or two passes, that isn't the way to start. Gentle and multiple passes is how to get it under control.
 
I agree with Stacy. A couple additions since I use a similar grinder.
1. Your original 6 may not be ruined, just smaller knives. Re profile them and try again.
2. Are you grinding pre or post heat treat? Pretty much impossible to ruin steel pre heat treat. Post heat treat, anything darker than straw color means you changed the temper, but not necessarily ruined it.
3. Use ceramic belts in the 36-120 grit range. Most people recommend 50 grit as an all purpose
4. Keep a bucket of water near your grinder to cool off the steel. Every pass if post heat treat.
5. I like to use a simple jig for rough grinding. A piece of 1 inch aluminum angle bar stock with a c-clamp. I angle the workrest a few degrees up toward the platen and clamp the blade edge up in the jig. Do a few passes and check.
6. After the jig I switch to freehand to blend and move up grits. Your fingers will tell you when to stop.
7. Go slow. Grind a little, then look. Spend more time looking.
 
Coda759 said:
So when beveling, most of the time what ends up happening are 3 things: I either I end up going too high up to the spine and not getting the result I want or also sometimes I would start too steep and end up actually rolling over the edge to another side and ruining the knife all together. I understand these are both problems with directing where the pressure needs to go, but my main problem is that I can't seem to get a consistent grip/stance with it (especially in my off hand). I also sometimes end up accidentally grinding off the tip. I buy steel from AlphaKnifeSupply and I currently only work with 1095 and 1084 steels because I know they are the most basic ones when it comes to heat treatment and I want to be able to do my own heat treating later too, but thats an entirely different story. The stocks that I get are .120 thick. Would that be too thin or is that fine?
Click to expand...
Use jig and start to grind nice knives today ....................not in next Century .
rLdMNN4.jpg
 
As a beginner I want to at least make a couple freehand to understand the process. And again, don't want to open a can of worms about jig vs freehand like i4Marc said. And I did do some research as to what tools I need and I have many things such as the ceramic belts, (right now I only have 36-60-120-220 grit from RED LABEL), layout fluid, scriber, the flat granite plate, many high quality files, all the PPE equipment, I have one of those 'knife maker's center scribes', 1-2-3 blocks to make sure I am always 90 degrees with the platen, a bunch of clamps of all kind, calipers, sanding paper from Mirka, I got one of those handles that has a magnet on it to sand and flatten the blanks after drilling holes in them, got a sanding block to sand flats when I get to that. My next purchase I am thinking would be the drill press because I recently tried working in batches and right now I only have a hand drill and I found that takes a lot of time (and since I am not the toughest dude around its kinda hard to do a lot in a row). This should streamline the process from stock to beveling so I can spend more time on the belt sander. After the drill press I am thinking to get a band saw of some kind.
Also one other question, what is the best way to accurately measure the edge and spine lines? I am using this "Knife Makers Center Scribe" which if you google its like the first amazon link that comes up, but what I find is that you can't necessarily measure the exact distance between the two lines. So I kinda guess so that there is like 1mm or so between the lines and take it from there. I know there are those "digital height gauges absolute origin" things that you put on a granite plate and you can take exact measurements. Would that be worth the investment? It costs like $60-$100
 
Coda759 said:
Would that be worth the investment? It costs like $60-$100
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That depends on if one can afford it, but I use mine multiple times on each knife. And there are other uses you'll find once you become comfortable with it, no doubt.
Mine isn't digital, btw. But it does have a carbide scribe point.
 
Coda759 said:
Knife Makers Center Scribe
Click to expand...
You don t need to buy it , make one ....................

DIY edge marking tool . . .

I make them several of different type ............... 1.universal one , for scriber i used HSS steel . Little tricky to scribe but it work . 2. I like this one , for scriber i used broken carbide bits .That will mark edge easy on any hardened steel . I found some topic about this one and...
bladeforums.com bladeforums.com
 
Some good advice all around. One thing I do not see mentioned is marking the whole blade between passes with a sharpie or something similar. Then make a pass and observe the result. The color contrast may help understand where the belt was actually removing material, and will make it easier to compare both sides. Also clamping the blade in a file guide may help in achieving the same "angle of attack" for both sides. Perhaps if you show the blades you'll get more specific pointers.
 
You can use a drill bit the same thickness as your steel to scribe Center lines. Or use one slightly bigger, scribe, then flip and scribe as gain. Easy thickness marking to not cross pre heat treat.
 
I started with a jig flat grinding for a couple blades. Then I did a couple with a jig hollow ground on my 12" wheel for a few. Then I went to freehand on my 8" wheel with workrest and now I do everything completely freehand bellied up on my 12" wheel. Starting with a jig completely sped up my learning curve. Really help me to get a feel for it. Of course you get out if it what you put into it and like I always say there is no substitute for getting just doing it. A couple more weeks and I'll have been making knives for a full year. Practice, practice, practice. There are no shortcuts! Here is my most recent blade:

Screenshot_20211104-155510_Gallery.jpg
 
Natlek said:
You don t need to buy it , make one ....................

DIY edge marking tool . . .

I make them several of different type ............... 1.universal one , for scriber i used HSS steel . Little tricky to scribe but it work . 2. I like this one , for scriber i used broken carbide bits .That will mark edge easy on any hardened steel . I found some topic about this one and...
bladeforums.com bladeforums.com
Click to expand...
Hrmm,


....,...........................why.........................so....................many..................periods?

I feel it would improve your posts if less periods are used.


I don't think anyone's been nice enough to point that out so hopefully you don't get offended.
 
pafka said:
Some good advice all around. One thing I do not see mentioned is marking the whole blade between passes with a sharpie or something similar.
Click to expand...
And scribe in reference lines into the ink, but not too deeply in the steel.


pafka said:
Then make a pass and observe the result.

The color contrast may help understand where the belt was actually removing material, and will make it easier to compare both sides.

Also clamping the blade in a file guide may help in achieving the same "angle of attack" for both sides.

Perhaps if you show the blades you'll get more specific pointers.
Click to expand...

This plus, on a fixed speed grinder, use fine grit belts.
It acts like slowing down a variable speed grinder.

I feel 36 is way too coarse and takes a lot of skill to know when to stop using it.

Try bevelling with 400 grit.
It's slower, you see where you are going after each pass.
 
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