Off Topic Grinding issues

N.W. Gean

N.W. Gean

Joined
Oct 10, 2018
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I've been attempting to make knives since May last year. I cannot grind a bevel to save my life. I built a 2x72. I've tried freehand and every jig know to man. I've got a box full of blades ground freehand and with every jig known to man and they're all more or less ruined by the same mistakes. Over and over. I feel like a fraud and a failure for my inability to do this thing that makes a knife what it is.

I don't know if I need help or if I'm just not good at this kind of thing. Has anyone else experienced this kind of discouragement?

/end of rant
 
Have you watched others grind before? and not on youtube? anytime i hear people say this i always suggest finding a local maker willing to give ya a few hours of pointers. who can see you grind, correct on the spot, and get ya goin in right direction.
 
Parker County, Texas. Unfortunately most of the makers seem to be near or in Austin. I'm thinking I probably just need more practice and I'm likely upset because I ruined 2 blades earlier tonight.
 
In my opinion it is the hardest part of any build. Try to identify the root cause of one mistake and focus on it. Them move on to the next. Often in frustration you can ruin a bevel. I find it helpful to stay as calm as possible. One thing that helps is to scribe your final line and scribe several lines leading up to it. Maybe scribe one every 1/8" up the bevel. This lets you see your mistakes and correct them before they are catastrophic. When learning you can just practice on mild steel. I find it helpful to get my edge down to final thickness then slowly raise the bevel up. This way you only need to remove material in one direction. Best of luck, dont give up.
 
If you don't have any makers close by, you might post some photos on here. I know how hard that can be. I hate posting what I believe to be mistakes myself. But it can be very helpful.
Also, have you tried Fred Rowe's Bubble jig? It made a world of difference for me.
 
your in texas, there is going to be a LOT of makers within a 30min drive of ya even if your in a remote area.
 
I've tried the bubble jig with iffy results, but I blame that on myself. I'm sure most people pick it up pretty quick.

After some reflection, I think the biggest thing that hurt me tonight was that this was the 1st time in 4 months I've seriously tried to grind bevels (because of school), and the last time was when I screwed up some knives that I'd sent away to JT for heat treat. So I think between quitting on a sour note and then not doing it for a while, it was a perfect storm to get upset and ruin blades.
 
Try ans make one good blade first. Take your time, see it as an investment in your knife making.
The first few won't be about the knives but getting the skills.
Use the bubble jig and have patience
 
I had a hard time with this when I started too.. took me a while to get a decent bevel, but I was determined to learn freehand. A very important part of it is your stance and motions. Salem's tips on his old website helped me a lot. https://sites.google.com/site/vorpalcustomknives/shop-techniques-3/grinding-tips

Another thing that I found really helpful was to scribe a center line... well two centerlines about 4 thou apart from each other. I find this makes it easier to see where I am trying to grind to. I then grind a hard 45 degree bevel to those lines along the edge to "establish the edge" or well, the rough 'for now' edge.

Using marker or layout fluid on the flats of the bevels I intend to grind, I color it all so I can better see what is being removed as I remove it. scribe some lines to how high I want my bevels to go so they can be worked towards. Then start to sort of facet off the upper edge/corner of that 45 that was just created, the part closer to the spine... and grind on that until it hit my initial edge line, trying to maintain a consistent angle. continue this until both lines the edge line and the scribed "top of the bevel" line meet, putting pressure on the blade where material needs to be removed, and keeping the side that does not need grinding off the belt for the most part, or touching with no pressure applied. you kind of need to "walk the bevel up the blade" from the pre-established edge all the way up to the spine or established bevel line. This is better than just trying to slam a pc of steel flat on the grinder and hoping it will grind evenly. It wont. This is really pretty difficult to explain from a keyboard, so with any luck, that makes some sense... My hope is that between my explanation here and Salem's (much better) explanation in that link I provided, you can go try again with better results.. but as others have said, someone who can show you in person will help greatly shave some time off your learning curve. I understand your frustration... I am in a similar situation as I live in south east NC, and it seems all the makers that are more accomplished than I am (not a tall order by any means) are a least a few hours from me... so I had to just keep at it until it got better. Dont get discouraged, get after it! Good Luck!
 
N.W. Gean said:
I've been attempting to make knives since May last year. I cannot grind a bevel to save my life. I built a 2x72. I've tried freehand and every jig know to man. I've got a box full of blades ground freehand and with every jig known to man and they're all more or less ruined by the same mistakes. Over and over. I feel like a fraud and a failure for my inability to do this thing that makes a knife what it is.

I don't know if I need help or if I'm just not good at this kind of thing. Has anyone else experienced this kind of discouragement?

/end of rant
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What kind of mistake you make ? Which part of blade you ruined ? Grinding bevel with jig on belt grinder should be easy if you understand what is going on . Did you try file jig ? Picture of one knife will help us to see what you do wrong
 
As said by the others, it is a hard thing to get right in the beginning. I still mess one up every now and then.
Photos would be a big help.

I suspect your issue is getting too much ground away while ding the plunge. This is often called the "2" line". Getting or making a shoulder jig ( a small stop-clamp for the blade) will greatly help.

Suggestions:
Slow down. If it takes a week to grind a blade, so be it. If it take a month to hand sand a blade, so be it. Rushing to do a blade quickly is the cause of most failures.

Get your stance right. Feet apart at shoulder width. Elbows tucked in at your sides. Grip the blade firmly and move the blade slowly as you grind. Don't sweep the blade backl and forth from side to side, but move it in a straight line until you either have the tip off the belt or reach the ricasso ( depending on which way you are going) … them lift the blade and return it for the next pass.

Slow your grinder down. If it isn't VS, then change the pulley to reduce the speed by half. A pair of 2-3-4 pulleys are a good way to change belt speed as needed.

Use the right belt. Start on a coarse belt for material removal. 80 to 100 grit is a good one for new makers. Stop when the bevel is about about 75% shaped. Move to a 120 grit belt to clean it up after you get the basic shape. Most of us quit there before HT, but you can go to 220 if you wish. Once the blade is HTed, go back to the 120 belt and get it flat and perfect before moving up to 220 and 400 grit. Most makers quit there or move to hand sanding. For a new maker, I suggest stopping at 400 grit.

Do a couple blades with a file and sandpaper only. This will help you learn how the bevel forms and where to take away metal.

Start simple. Many new makers want to start with a Bowie knife or other more complex shape/size knife. Start with a drop point hunter with a 3" blade and a 4.5" handle. Keep it simple with no embellishments and basic full tang handle scales

Use drawings and photos as a reference as you work. Have the sketch or photo out by the grinder to compare to as the blade takes shape.

As aid before by the others - Visit a maker who can show you how it is done. Watch him and then try to do some grinding with his guidance. It is worth a 2 hour trip and a six pack of beer to get that type help.

There are hundreds of You-Tube videos and DVD's for sale on grinding. They can be a valuable resource.

Use the Custom Search Engine ( in the stickys) to read older threads on grinding bevels and other grinding issues.
 
All really good advice above!

I started out the same way (and I'd guess most of us did), getting massively frustrated & turned a pile of good steel into a pile of scrap metal. I have the very first blade I tried to grind hanging in my shop as a humble reminder.

The things I found most helpful are:

  • Visit some local knife makers. Bring something useful for their time (like handle material or steel or cash). A few minutes of hands-on time beats hours of youtube videos by a long shot.
  • Have a plan. Keep it simple. Make templates. You have to know where you want to go, before you can figure out how to get there. Avoid funky compound grinds and fantasy shapes like the plague.
  • Take your time. Stacy nailed it above. Set it down and walk away as soon as frustration sets in. Come back to it when your mind is in the right place.
  • Measure and mark everything. Dykem and giant sharpie markers are your friend. Scribe layout lines everywhere so you know where you've been and where you need to go. When grinding bevels and changing grit, I mark all over with the sharpie marker so I can see exactly where material is being removed. I prefer red sharpies to contrast with the blue dykem.
  • Use sandpaper and belts like they're free. Dull belts take more pressure to cut, which makes it sooooo much harder to control. Light touch, smooth movements. The blade needs to be an extension of your body, regardless of any jig being used or not.
Hang in there - you can do it!!

Edit: I'd like to throw one more thing in there, that I learned from @Joe Allen Knives-2017, but it's a little further down the road for you. When you shape a handle, (turn the grinder off....) close your eyes and feel all over. Notice how it fits your hand, look for flaws in the finish or shape, let your fingers inspect every detail. It's amazing how sensitive our hands are, and how much can be observed from feel rather than sight.
 
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N.W. Gean said:
Done, hopefully everyone can see it. I think I'll give it another go tomorrow.
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FWIW, I’m currently in the learning stages myself. I have learned in the short time of doing this that patience and determination are essential in knife making. I’ve made a couple knives from files and a couple from leaf springs and they all could use a little help.
 
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