Grinding Slipjoint blade question

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Sep 17, 2013
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for post heat treat grinding, do you grind before or after assembly and why? For those that grind before assembly, do you use a special jig or fixture?

Edit: to be more clear since my question is apparently not understandable- do you grind a slipjoint blade with the knife assembled (not peined and finished, just assembled) or do you grind the blade separate from the handle? I’ve seen it done both ways, just wondering which is favored and why.
If you grind the blade separately, do you use a special jig?

Hope that’s clear enough.
 
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I do post heat treat grinding before assembly because of the final hand sanding and polishing required before final assembly. As for jigs or fixture I use a pair of Needle nose vise grips with a piece of leather folded over the Tang to protect from scratching. This is just my way of doing a batch of say six slippies at a whack...there are other steps in the mix like surface grinding all assembly parts to dimension post heat treat.
 
I finish the blade entirely separate, at every step, from the handle. This is the holder thing i made, it grips the tang 100% securely.

It is a T shaped handle with 2 holes, and a small bar with 2 threaded holes. The blade tang goes in between and tightening the nuts clamps it in place. Just have to make sure it clamps evenly, very secure though. I use it when freehand grining and when block sanding. It does not leave marks on the tang.

BqIEYS2.jpg
 
I've done both ways, either holding the blade in a clamp/fixture, or I'll finish the tang, assemble, and then grind it assembled. You do have to take some extra care to keep from getting grit and whatnot into the knife, or not loosening the assembly up if you put too much pressure on the blade when final finishing.
 
There are tons of guys, especially ones that work only in mono-steel (stainless or carbon) that grind after actual assembly (nailed together). The advantage of this, is that even if things aren't dead-flat/parallel before assembly, or even if you cant(tilt) the pivot or other pins during peening, you can grind everything "right". You can even grind a blade to land center, that otherwise wouldn't.

However, the limitation of this approach, is that it doesn't encourage you to make everything so that it'll come together with everything right in the first place, and it can severely limit your ability to utilize certain construction methods and materials. It makes having properly etched damascus components nearly impossible (yes, I do know of some ways people have figured out how to etch everything after it's already assembled and ground together, but it's tedious, and I doubt you can ever really be sure you didn't do internal damage with the acid). All that being said, there are some top end slipjoint makers that hammer everything together before grinding. Most of them (if not all) that I'm aware of however, do pretty specific configurations (usually, all stainless) of construction.


I personally build each component separately, completely finished, glue the handle material on, then pin it all together as the last step. This IMO gives the most versatility, and control over the final product.

Like Don, (and I make very small, thin, delicate slipjoints), I just hold the tang between my index finger and thumb, and rest the spine over the knuckles of my other index finger when grinding. I do this with full distal tapers, 1/10" or thinner blades, on a 3hp grinder running at 6,000 SFPM, and 50 grit belts, typically. I say all this, only to illustrate the point, that it's not that hard to do. Unlike Don, I typically grind my slipjoint blades 100% after heat treat. I do this primarily because a) I like to clamp my blades straight right out of the quench (even carbon), and b) I like to have plenty of room to clean-up decarb or adjust geometry after HT. The advantage here, in holding the blades with your fingers (once you're used to it enough to be safe) is that you always know when you're getting too hot and need to quench between grinding passes, which, the smaller, and thinner you get, the easier it is to burn a blade finish grinding, and ruin temper. However, this is really just a matter of preference.

I don't personally recommend doing your blade grinding loosely assembled with "temp pins", because you're liable to get something loosened up by grinding pressures, and have an accident frankly. You do however, often need to do profile refinement (grinding spine and handle belly) or handle work this way, especially if you're utilizing exotic materials where you need each component to be completely and finely finished before final assembly.
 
I usually have the frame made and the scale inserts installed. Put together with set up pins it allows
me to get closer to center when grinding. Other than that its one knife at a time, when the one I'm
working on is ready to go out the door I'll start the next one.
The only variation of this is that I will do heat treat on blades and springs ahead of myself, say 4 sets
of blades and springs- rarely more.
Ken.
 
Thought i would post a jig i just made for doing the initial bevels, pre HT. I will paint it here in a bit. I wanted something i could dunk a blade in water while grinding without taking it off the jig. I also wanted something i could get essentially the same angle on either side of the blade. It uses the same clamping idea as my handle i posted earlier.

7jK15SA.jpg


nlYSckU.jpg


I was using a piece of angle iron on a block with a hinge. Even using two hinges and rack them a bit, i still had play in it. This new jig is rock solid. I also had uneven grinds with the old jig because the tip would flex more on the second side. This new jig requires me to use hand pressure on the tip. It works better and is easier to keep the blade cool. I may (i dont know yet) start using this thing rather than hand grinding post HT. I already know i prefer this new jig for pre HT.

AMvNm22.jpg


To get the blade even when changing sides, i just measure off the table to the blade, and adjust until it is the same height, squeeze clamp blade to the angle iron, then tighten the two nuts. I love this thing. I think i might drill a little pin hole to get the tang aligned easier when changing sides.
 
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Thanks everybody for the insight and thanks for the jig pics. You guys have given me a lot to think about moving forward, I appreciate it.
 
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