Griptilian vs. Endura?

shootist16

shootist16

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What are your thoughts on the Griptilian vs. the Endura? My beater knife until now was a plain edge Endura 98. I think it has a lot to offer at its price point. But you get better ergonomics and an awesome locking system for not much more. Thoughts? Opinions? What do you think about 440-C vs. ATS-55?

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Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
http://www.theleadingedgeonline.com
 
My opinion? 440C is crap and ATS-55 is pretty good. Benchmade really cheaped it out using that crap. Literally their cost if they used ATS-34 at least would have been pennies more per blade and wouldn't suck quite so much. Plus they did a shoddy jub grinding the edges. Totally uneven.

Oh well, they don't call 'em BM for nothing!
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Marc
 
Haven't held a griptilian yet, but the design looks solid. However the type of steel is extrememly undesirable, and one that I would never purchase in a edc folder. I've used an endura briefly, while I usually side with Benchmade over Spyderco everytime, that 440C blade is making it impossible
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My recommendation would have to be the Endura.

God I can see the emails I'm going to get over this recommendation, hehehe
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Dark Nemesis

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Crimson Horizon
Nothing but edge baby...
dark.nemesis@home.com
 
Gee, I didn't know 440C sucked so bad. Beats the crap out of what Spyderco puts on most of their smaller blades.
I've got two Spydies in ATS-55, and have been very happy with them.
No clue as to what BM's 440C is going to be like. I'd just have soon had the blade in ATS-34/154CM, though.
Overall, I'd take the 550 in a heartbeat. Handled one today for the first time, and would take it over any FRN Spyderco.

[This message has been edited by OwenM (edited 05-17-2001).]
 
I think some of you guys are confusing 440A with 440C. 440C is a premium steel, it was the leading steel prior to ATS 34. If you look on some custom knife web sites you will see that many knifemakers prefer this steel.
440C has greater stain resistance than ATS 34 and is almost as tough. Boker and Klotzli also use 440 C on many of their premium knives. I think that 440C is great choice for the Griptillian. I don't own one myself but I think that it is a great way to own an Axis lock and pay well under $100.
 
I don't know exactly where 440-C stands, but thought it was a decent steel. It may not be as "good" as 440-V or BG-42 but I thought it was a very serviceable steel. I knew 440-A sucked.

here is a link to a thread in the reviews archive about 440-C:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000352.html

Forgot to mention above that you also get an adjustable pivot and screw construction with the Griptilian.

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Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
http://www.theleadingedgeonline.com

[This message has been edited by shootist16 (edited 05-17-2001).]
 
I, too, wonder if there isn't some confusion here. 440C is an excellent steel. It won't hold an edge quite like ATS-34, but still better than the 2nd-tier steels (8A, etc.), and it's very tough. Before ATS-34 made it big in the later '80s, 440C was the hot high-end stainless. I absolutely feel it would be foolish to dismiss what otherwise might be an incredibly well-done knife just because the steel is a half-notch behind ATS-34 in edgeholding.

In theory, I feel the Griptilian could replace the endura for my lighter-weight carry knife. I say "in theory" because 1. I haven't held a griptilian yet, and 2. I keep thinking I'll replace my endura with my next knife, and it never seems to happen.

Certainly the lock advantage is a strong one. The endura's lock has always been fine, but I've also been able to bend it out a bit on harder use. An axis lock would be nice. But, the griptilian would also have to match the endura's great carryability (very thin and light), and the ergonomics which work wonderfully for my hand. Not to mention that I find the endura's blade shape to be outstanding for everyday use; I love that sharp point.

I've been wrong too many times to confidently predict that this is the knife that will replace my endura, but the griptilian certainly could be, or at least work its way into the rotation along with the 710 Axis, the endura, and calypso jr.

Joe
 
I think that if the Griptilian has a weakness vis a vis the Endura, it is its width. The Endura is much thinner and a bit lighter than the Griptilian which has steel liners because of the Axis Lock. The Axis, however, makes the Griptilian much smoother and easier to open.
 
The C in 440C indicates a higher Carbon content, which translates to better edge retention but more corrosion. Other than that, it is EXACTLY the same as 440A and 440B.

CPM 440V (also known as s60v) is a COMPLETELY different animal and shouldn't be confused at all. It has 5.5% vanadium and a lot of other stuff that give it great edge retention. It is also made through the Crucible Particulate Metalurgy process (hence the CPM)

Granted I'm a bit of a steel snob here, but for me with all the great steels there are these days, VG-10, CPM 440V and 420V, BG-42, CPM3V etc., honestly ATS-34 or 154-CM is the WORST I would go with. And 440C doesn't even touch that.

Aside from Damascus which is a whole other kettle of fish, I like my blades to cut like razors and keep that edge a good long time. Of course even then you can get Mike Norris CPM 440V San Mai Damascus.

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Marc
 
I am thinking about picking up a Griptilian too... I am a big fan of the axis lock and it seems like it would make a great beater knife...
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
In theory, I feel the Griptilian could replace the endura for my lighter-weight carry knife. I say "in theory" because 1. I haven't held a griptilian yet, and 2. I keep thinking I'll replace my endura with my next knife, and it never seems to happen.

Joe</font>
Click to expand...

You are right Joe. I have often said the same thing. The Endura sure is hard to beat at its price point. I am sure that the Endura will continue to serve me well. I think the Griptilian has a lot to offer and will be in my carry rotation.

That being said, would I pay the $95 full retail for a Griptilian? No. But at web prices it is a bargain. New Graham and Bayou LaFourche get $57 for them. Quite a bargain.


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Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
http://www.theleadingedgeonline.com
 
There's nothing wrong with 440C.
Actually, I don't really buy into all the "super steel" hype at all. I do believe that some steels are better than others but mostly on an unmeasurable scale when it comes to actual everyday use.

Let's say steel-X will cut through 500ft of cardboard before it needs to be resharpened. Now steel-Y will cut through 600ft of cardboard before it needs resharpened.
Now let's say steel-X needs only 20 strokes to resharpen it and steel-Y needs 30 strokes.
You have to ask yourself if it really makes a difference to YOU and how you plan to use the knife.
Not to mention blade geometry and handle ergonomics plays a major role in a knife's cutting ability. If the knife has great steel but puts a blister on your hand after 45 minutes, then it's not the knife for me.

My Spyderco ATS-55 blades hold an edge just fine, and so does my Old Timer 1095 blades, and so does my Shrade LB-7 (whatever Schrade+ steel is?).

If the knives are equal in every other way, and you like them both equally, and the prices are simular, then go for the one with the "better" steel.
Otherwise, choose the one you actually LIKE.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
A couple points. I don't know how many times I've read in knife magazines, in the past 2 years, that 440C is still the standard by which other stainless steels are measured, so far as corrosion resistance is concerned.

To me, if one is going to constantly be using a knife hard, doing a great deal of cutting, day after day, then wanting a steel that will hold an edge a long time is truly important.

But for knives that spend most or all their existence in a box in a drawer or safe, it truly doesn't matter a tinker's damn what steel the blade is made from. The same goes for knives that ride in strong side pockets, rarely, if ever used, just there in case, someday . . . A couple stabs, 2 or 3 slashes, and the knife has become evidence, never to be seen again. I think that even the lowly 420J2, if heat treated decently, and a good edge is on the blade is up to that level of use.

I leave you, happy with my AUS8 and ATS55 EDCs,
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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
No, I'm definately not confused with 440A vs 440C. 440A is bad, but I personally don't like a 440C blade. Granted it was the main steel used before ATS-34 came out, but that didnt make it good
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I don't buy into the "super steel" hype, but I do know what has given me good performance, and for me 440C does not make that list
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Dark Nemesis

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Crimson Horizon
Nothing but edge baby...
dark.nemesis@home.com
 
That is one of the things that I love about knives. There are so many different ones for different people. Nobody has to like the same steel or same knives. It all boils down to personal preferance.

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Dennis Bible

....Almost here, The Leading Edge....
http://www.theleadingedgeonline.com
 
As far as I know, 440C is still used by a number of custom makers,(mainly European). It was referred to favorably in a recent issue of Blade Mag. (within the past year)

I think the bottom line is the heat treatment.

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Dick
 
I currently carry two 440C knives, both hand made, one by Barry Dawson the other by Lynn Dawson, and the steel is great. The knives have thin, hollow ground edges, and hold an edge just a little less well than ATS-34, but are easier to sharpen and appear to have a much finer grain structure. I like them a lot. In fact the Lynn Draco is my current favorite carry.

View


Here is the Barry D. neck knife:

View


Barry has a proprietary differential hardening heat treatment that he does on 440C that gets very good performance from the steel with 58-60 in the primary grind and softer in the spine and tang. Works especially well with 1/4 and 3/16 stock sizes. The results they get are the reason they have never switched to another steel, but have stuck with 440C. Excellent blades.

Of course Benchmades 440C won't be heat treated that way, but a lot of custom makers consider 440C about the equal of ATS-34, only tougher and more stain resistant. I like my 440C blades, and they compete with my CPM440V and CPM420V blades for carry time.


[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 05-18-2001).]
 
The other thing to note again about 440-C is that it is notches up from ATS-34 in toughness. If you're worred about sharpening your Benchmade ATS-34 blades to 15-degrees per side, you should have no such worries with 440-C (provided, as always, that Benchmade did a good job of the heat treat). So for a little less wear resistance, you get a lot more toughness, and a whole lot more performance if you take advantage of that toughness in your sharpening strategy.

I'm looking forward to picking up a Griptilian for a test drive!

Joe
 
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