Guard slot by hand - I need tips please

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Jan 27, 2008
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I can't, for the life of me, file a guard slot to a perfect fit. I know it can be done, I've seen it done on this forum many, many times...... but not by me.

I mark and drill holes, then start filing away for an hour or two and usually get the slot nice and clean, but inevitably to wide.

What tricks do you employ?
 
Buy 2x as many files as you have now & grind "safe edges" on them

That is grind 1 or more sides of the file smooth so you only cut in one direction at one time.


Scratch layout lines on and sneak up to the lines slowly.
 
The 2 basic methods are:
1- File a few strokes, take it out of the vice, test the fit, put it back in the vice, file a couple more strokes,and repeat 75-100 times
2- File a bunch away and test the fit to find it's too big:(
Losing patience with #1 = #2
The few tricks I know are:
1-make sure the blade is ready to go, don't get a tight fit and then sand a couple thousandths off the ricasso in finishing
2-make sure the tang tapers a little in thickness, even if it isn't a tapered tang.
3-If the guard is steel you can usually anneal it and squeeze it back down a couple thou and try again as a last resort.
 
Press fit the guard by filing very slightly undersize, and tap the guard into place with a piece of copper tubing.
 
Press fit is the way to go. Do everything above and if you are hand filing you want to polish the surface enough to see the reflection of your files on the guard material. Watching the reflection of your file will let you know if you are filing at an angle or straight.
 
The hack way is to file it as close as you can then put the guard on and hit it from the side with a big hammer. Smash the gaps out of it so to speak. You'll have to flatten the face again but you can get rid of some pretty big gaps this way. If your guard material is too hard it will indent into the blade slightly so you have to be careful.

Ideally you would just file a little, check fit, and repeat until you get a perfect press fit. A shoulder filing clamp can be used on the guard to file one side at a time perfectly square if you are really struggling with that part. Get both sides close using the guide then free hand the last few thousandths of an inch.
 
I do the smash and fit, too. The last guard I did I roughed the hole to an uneven .020" undersize fit and hammered it on red hot! Worked like a charm.... mind you my finishes are more forgiving than most.
 
Bigest thing is to have the tang a little undersize. A good quality file guide will help and you can file a tiny "step" at the blade/guard junction. And practice, practice, make a new guard, practice some more. Any guards over sized save them for the another knife and make that one a hair thicker.
 
Here is how I slot my guards:

After HT and final sanding/polishing of the blade -
Tape the Un-Sharpened blade up well, as you will be gripping the blade tightly during fitting. In the sanding stages, you should have sanded the tang to a smooth surface in the tang area near the ricasso. Also, slightly rounding the tang edges helps make the fit up smoother ( your drill bits don't drill square holes, do they?)
I use a set of calipers to mark the slot placement. First I measure the tang and assure that there is a good taper toward the ricasso, with only the last 6-10mm being the final fit area. Then I use the tips to scribe the cut out area on the guard material. The lines scribed will be 2mm longer than the tang width at the shoulder, and 1mm narrower than the tang thickness at the ricasso.
I drill a hole at each end of this box. Use a drill a tad smaller than the box width marked.
Next we put a #0 or #1 blade in the jeweler's saw and saw out the metal between the holes going up one line and down the other. Take your time, and change the blade as needed. Lubricating the blade with wax helps,too.
Now, take an #00 equaling file ( barrette or warding will work,too) and file the cut straight and smooth. Check the fit, and file a little more until the tang stops about 10mm from the shoulder. Use a sharpie and blacken the inside of the slot. Put the guard back on the tang. Put a few layers of tape on your vise jaws, and set the jaws about 8-10mm apart. Grip the taped blade and place the tang between the open jaws and give the blade/guard a few sharp bangs downward to seat it. Slip the guard off and notice where the sharpie has rubbed off. File a few strokes as needed, and repeat. When the guard will almost seat all the way, give it about ten or twenty good thunks down on the vise jaws to make the final fit . Adjust with the file very carefully as the final tight fit approaches.

If this is done right, the guard and tang will be a perfect press fit to each other.
The guard is now ready for final shaping and soldering in place. The fit should be tight enough that merely using epoxy or JB weld to seal the joint will suffice ( but I still solder the guard on most of the time).

Some tips:
Start with an oversized piece of guard material. It is nearly impossible to exactly place the slot in the center of a pre-shaped guard.

Milling the slot on a milling machine is a good way to get a perfectly straight sided slot. A small counter top "mini mill" will do this task. You can even use your drill press and an X-Y vise to cut the slot with an 1/8" carbide milling bit. (This isn't the best solution, but works if you feed the cut very slowly)

Make sure that every thing to be done on the blade is finished before fitting the guard. The only final steps I can think of would be final etching of the blade and etching the makers mark. Painting the tang/guard area with nail polish or a waterproof sharpie will prevent the etching acid from removing any metal where you just fit the guard.
The very last thing to do to the knife is sharpen it. Only on rare occasions is it necessary to sharpen the blade before final assembly. Failure to heed this is the most common cause of cutting yourself in knifemaking.
Taper and round the tang to make fitting into the guard and handle easier.

Tape blades well to prevent scratching the blade or cutting your hand.(Even unsharpened blades are still somewhat sharp)

When filing the slot, use even strokes, and don't "saw" the file back and forth. That damages the file and makes the slot narrower in the center of the metal as it minutely rounds the slot edges. I file the slot as a slight taper from the back side to make the fit at the ricasso easier to zero in on. No need for a big taper, but 5-10 degrees makes the final fitting much faster and more accurate.

On a big thick blade, like a bowie or camp knife, filing a slight shoulder across the tang at the ricasso for the guard to seat on makes the fit-up much easier. These knives were traditionally take-down types, and the "seat" made the assembly easier. Don't get crazy, a few hundredths of an inch will do. The tang should be 80% of the blade thickness at the ricasso. Thus, on a .250 blade the shoulders can be filed .025" deep on each side. I do not use this technique on smaller blades, as it creates a weak spot.

Avoid heat build-up in grinding the guard and handle, as it will break down the epoxy seal, or melt the solder joint on the guard .( don't you hate when that happens?) If you can't hold it with bare fingers, it is too hot.

Think the whole handle/guard process through before you cut the slot, or install the guard. There may be work that needs to be completed before the slot is cut or the guard is permanently placed. Shaping an "S" guard should be done prior to the slot being cut, for instance. You can trim the profile after the cut, but get the "S" shape defined and flat fit at the ricasso down before the cutting of the slot.
Doing most of the final shaping of the guard to center the slot is a good idea pre-assembly, as you can use a micrometer to check the placement.

Sand and shape the handle as much as possible prior to final glue-up. Some things can't be done until all is assembled, but do every step that can be done first.

Sand the guard surfaces to the final finish and tape them up for assembly. You only need to expose the glue areas. This avoids getting glue all over the guard, and scratches in final handle sanding. The blade should be taped up until all work is done on the handle/guard.

Dry assemble the blade/guard/handle and check everything....EVERYTHING.... several times before mixing the epoxy. I can't over emphasis the importance of this step. If it needs to be adjusted or changed, discover that fact now, not after the epoxy is cured. This is the one step that causes the most heartache in knifemaking. It is also the one that shows the worst when a knowledgeable person looks at your finished knife. The most common comments heard about an otherwise nicely made knife are, " You should "clock" the mosaic rivets before the epoxy hardens", and "Youi should have sanded the handle to fit the guard a bit closer on one side.".

So - Don't Forget To Clock the rivets, and double check the fit-up!
 
Stacy, that explanation should be up in the stickies, and if it is, why the heck haven't I seen it in there:confused:

One point of contest though, for me the most common way that I cut myself while making a knife is not from working on a sharpened knife, it is from the edge of the blunt knife. No I am not joking or trying to be funny, it is from the squared edge while wet sanding. They are never real deep, but often I will go to change my sand paper and see the nice gash on the side of my finger because the skin is softer from wet sanding. It is amazing just how sharp a 90* angle can be, think hockey skate:eek:
 
Just peen around the slot a little to close the gap. Then sand down the top and bottom if you don't want the peened texture.
 
Stacy, I wish you could start adding photos to posts like that.... for an ADD brain that just looks like a sea of words. :o :foot:

If you don't surface grind your ricasso, then I think the method Jason mentioned is the best route. You can use a file jig and file out a VERY precise, meticulously worked guard slot.... but if you're fitting it up to a coarse ricasso... it was all for not.

On the handful of forge textured ricassos (for some reason I want to put an apostrophe in there to break that up, but I guess the ricasso does not have ownership of anything :confused: ;) :foot:) that I have done, I ended up doing an oversized slot, smashing the guard down from the side, driving it off and getting it back to flat, then repeating that a couple times until it really fit right.
 
Yes .... SMASH IT!..... I think that needs to be in my sig line... I use it all the time..... okay, mostly in BigBlue's threads.
 
WOW!!

Thanks all for your thoughts.

1234 -
Buy 2x as many files as you have now & grind "safe edges" on them
Yup. I think that's today's project. A lot of my trouble is caused by errant strokes when fine tuning the length of the slot which ends up slightly flaring the slot right at the shoulder. This tip will help that a lot. Thanks.

Jason - I dearly need a file guide. I can't free hand file a flat and level edge on a 1/4" thick piece of steel. The slot surfaces always come out rounded. I think, more than any other little gadget, this would improve my fit immeasurably. Not only would it help cure the above issue, it would help with the entire guard/shoulder fit. I'm looking at one of the high-dollar carbide faced versions that can be used on the grinder as well.

Rick - I saw that post in which you described your process(handsome knife by the way). I may give this a try at some point.

Will -
....and you can file a tiny "step" at the blade/guard junction
I've read the pros and con's of this technique. I'll likely give it a shot when I have a file guide to help make a straight/accurate cut.

Stacey - THANK YOU!!
Start with an oversized piece of guard material. It is nearly impossible to exactly place the slot in the center of a pre-shaped guard.
My box of guard-shame is deep and heavy with all my off-center slots..... unbelievable! I learned that "trick" long ago.

Shaping an "S" guard should be done prior to the slot being cut, for instance. You can trim the profile after the cut, but get the "S" shape defined and flat fit at the ricasso down before the cutting of the slot.
**** errrrrrrr.....grumble, grumble, grumble****

Unky -
the most common way that I cut myself....... is from the squared edge while wet sanding.
YES! YES! YES!

Tai - I read a thread some where here not long ago where this process was shown and explained in some detail. I'm thinking I'll actually try this on the guard that caused may frustration last night.

Nick -
Stacy, I wish you could start adding photos to posts like that
I second that motion. Stacey you have an immense amount knowledge and experience in this field. I love to SEE how you do things as well as read about it.

I ended up doing an oversized slot, smashing the guard down from the side
Cold? Not hot like Rick's method? You literally just whack the sides of the installed guard with a hammer until it compresses the slot just so much to get a tight fit? THAT is the most un-Nick Wheeler thing I've seen you write.:D;)

Again, thanks to all for the suggestions. This is but one point of frustration in my building process, but one in which improvement would represent a very noticeable jump in the quality of my work.
 
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In case it has not been mentioned marking the region with a sharpie will show you exactly what is and is not being filed.

I have done a lot of filing in my life on some fine items and the sharpie trick really will let you find tune where and how much you are actually filing. There are a lot of great techniques on this forum and really helps cut down on the learning curve.
 
When I finally get the book ready for print there will be photos of all this......I know, I know....when is the book comming out???....hopefully by Christmas 2012.
 
When I finally get the book ready for print there will be photos of all this......I know, I know....when is the book comming out???....hopefully by Christmas 2012.


Awesome.

I know I'll buy one or two.

Nick has a point though, not only photos, but spaces, paragraphs, headings, Bolds, underlines,

whatever you can do to separate, organize the info into smaller bits, and give me context on the subject helps me too.


Have a look at the difference between you're original post "The things I advise new knifemakers against" & the way I formatted it in the PDF file from the Standard reply


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-you-got-the-basic-down?p=7831184#post7831184

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF
 
When I finally get the book ready for print there will be photos of all this......I know, I know....when is the book comming out???....hopefully by Christmas 2012.

But that is too late the world as we know it ends on December 21, 2012:eek: :p

I will be looking forward to the book, be sure to put up a notice when its ready:thumbup:
 
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