guards

W

W.T. Beck

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Jul 9, 2001
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This topic has no doubt been discussed already but I can't seem to find the right search words to discover it. The question I have is, should a wilderness/survival knife have a large guard? I am partial to large guards myself, and like the Randall knives in particular due to their ample guards.

Somewhere I read that a survival knife needs a good guard, since an accidental cut in a survival situation could have disasterous consequences. This made alot of sense to me. Yet, I see alot of knives recommended for wilderness/survival purposes which have miniscule guards which don't offer much protection.

One example that comes to mind are the highly touted Fallkniven knives. I myself have the F1, but the guard on it is just a small bump, integral to the rubber handle. The A1 is many peoples' favorite survival knife, but from the pictures I have seen it appears to have a somewhat small rubber guard, also.

So what is everybodys opinion on this? Would you pick a Randall with a big, beefy metal guard, or the Fallkniven with the little rubber one? Let's assume price is not a factor here.
 
The difference here is that between a survival/fighting knife and a survival knife. The large guard may be a good option if you're going to have to take out sentrys or fight with the knife. The smaller guard on a true survival knife is purposely made so the user can choke up on the blade in numerous hand positions in order to cut more efficiently.

It's highly unlikely that I'd be going into a combat survival situation, so my choices will usually be for the simple guards as on the Fallkniven lineup.

Mike
 
Thanks for your reply, sgtmike88,

I have read those arguements about large guards getting in the way of certain cuts. However, above I refered to a survival essay that made the point that one needs good protection from an accidental cut when far from civilization.

I have cut myself accidentally with knives which have rather minimal guards, but never with knives that have long guards. The situation was holding the knives with the blade pointed up, inadvertently relaxing my grip, and having the knives slide backwards until the blade came in contact with my fingers. The small rounded guards on those knives just rolled over my hand, failing to stop the knife from sliding. These accidents would not have occured had the knives had long, straight guards, as such guards would have snagged on my hand and stopped the backward slide.

I do think the longer guards make a knife safer and more "idiot proof". It makes sense to me that you don't want to cut yourself accidentally while lost in the woods somewhere.
 
Along the lines of Mikes response , I think you would have to define "survival" knife. I think it's sort of subjectivve, like ther term camp knife.
To me survival knife says "tool heavier purposes."..Where a full blown figher may , for some users require a double guard, a hacking, prying, opening ammo cases, driving through logs,survival knife doesn;t require one. As Mike stated, it limits the ability to choke up when you have a double guard. Gerber used the term "survival knife" for its Mk-1 due to the fact AFEES ( army, airforce excqhnges services)wouldn't sell them if it was called a fighting knife.

Define what you wish your particular survival knife should do, then assess the need for a double gurad
 
In past threads, the discussion of guards has been one of those polarizing ones, with many people for and against.

Those against a guard argue that a well designed handle is easy to grip firmly and will keep the hand in place safely, and that the guard only serves to get in the way of choking up on the blade in delicate work as sgtmike88 pointed out.

Proponents for guards argue that in a thrusting motion where the blade may encounter a jarring impact, the hand has a chance of sliding up the blade. For better utility, believers in a guard usually opt for a half guard that allows choking up on the blade above.

Hard thrusting of a knife is rarely done outside of combat, hence the guard is usually chosen for combat knives more often than it is utility knives.

-But I really like the look of a guard on a large knife! Since I'm already carrying a small knife for delicate work, I choose big knives with guards and I don't wake up feeling dirty in the morning. :)
 
Hello Ravenn,

I am not sure the guard needs to be double, unless one anticipates a need to use it as a fighting knife. Given the crime rate in the US I guess that is something one can't totally rule out.

A long lower guard would increase the safety of the knife, so the issue here is what should take priority - safety or cutting efficiency? Being a careless person I tend to think that for myself I should give safety the priority. Of course, if someone has used guardless Scandinavian knives all their lives and never once cut themselves, they probably won't be concerned about accidental cuts.
 
I like drop blade style knives.

like the Greco companion.

Safe but it allows multiple hand holds.

Ben
 
On any knife that could be used to stab into a hard object I think a guard of some sort is very important. On folders, and fixed blade choppers and survival type knife less important. Still good gripy handles and materials are important. Something like the handle on the Reeve Project 1 & 2 are plenty. Raspy handle and small but effective guards. I think its critical for people to treat a knife out of its sheath or open if its a folder, the same as a loaded gun. You have to be aware of the blade and what its doing every moment. You have to put your full concentration on the knife just like you would on the muzzle of your firearm. You also cant use your hands to do anything else without setting the knife down. A fall, someone startling you, or just being distracted can all lead to some very serious injury if you have a knife open and ready to go. This is much easier to say than it is to do. To me anyway knives seem disarmingly safe but are not. Guards will only prevent a tiny portion of those type of injuries. If the knife that fits your needs has them, all the better. But I would not reject a knife out of hand that did not.
 
Guards may have uses other than fighting on a survival knife. Consider the old military piolet's survial knife with the saw back (intended to saw though the aluminum of a downed aircraft), the cross guard protects your hand from the saw. Any knife used for stabbing should have a large guard, or the user should only use the palm reinforced grip. A survival knife may be used for heavy stabbing when digging, cutting a hole through ice (for fishing), or again getting out of downed aircraft. The cross guard can be helpful in attaching the knife to a stick to make a spear (allthough this practice is often a bad idea due to the risk of breaking or loosing the knife).
 
The survival knife that I carry and use the most is a Nimravus. It has more of a bump and a well shaped handle than a guard.

My Ontario SP-5 Bowie has a bit more of a guard but still is not obtrusive.

A large guard simply gets in the way for me. It is not as good for the utility type chores that I routinly perform with a fixed blade. I have several Randalls because I thought and still think that they look good but they don't make as good a survival/utility knife as my blades with a very minimal guard. They would probably be awesome fighters as they are very aggressive cutters.

To each his own however and if you are prone to slipping and cutting yourself in the movements that get your chores done, then choose a guard style that will save some of that blood. It seems that part of finding the knife that will really work the way you want it too and to become your favorite, you have to try different ones out until you find your sweet user. Good luck.
 
Well it just so happens I was very fiscally irresponsible today, and brought home a Randall Made Model 14, O1 blade, from Chuck's firearms in Atlanta. The knife has a whopper of a guard. Given the price I paid for it, I doubt I will be taking it out in the wilderness, though. I will guarantee it's survival by keeping it in my gun safe!
 
given all the "scientific" answers about the size of a guard I'm not gonna try to refute any of them.

I just think that above and beyond those very practical reasons, how you use you knife is also important. For instance, when whittling, do you cut in or out? When cutting a belt, do you slice up, down or out? Basically, how do you most naturally use you knife? I remember reading a discussion in BLADE magazine on a similar topic about the types of grinds on a utility knife.

Whether chisel (left/right?), rolled or hollow, serrated or straight, and so on... it all boiled down to how you handle you knife; how you cut.

So if you feel good with a big guard... then that's the knife for you. If you like a small guard, then that's the one you should be carrying. Fighter or survival knife, the design variations are huge. There are fighters with small guards and there are survival knives with huge guards... this is one situation where I don't think size matters...:cool: it's what you do with you knife that counts... hehehe

I personally do not intend to use my knife as a primary weapon in a survival situation (like on the end of a stick as a spear) nor do I expect to stab any large animals, so I never really felt I needed a big guard. Prying open vegetation to get at grubs is probably about as "stabby" as I'm gonna get.

just my 2 cents worth...
 
Just my 2 cents but:
single edge knife,lower guard as a minimum
Double edge,even a bowie or anything that even looks like a edge gets a double guard.
Wintertime with heavy gloves or your hands are cold and numb your dextertity is lower so you may pass right over that mini guard and not know it.
Even in the jungle you wear gloves alot.
Field chores are easier to do with a knife with just a single guard or a small double guard than with a true large double but I think it is easier to overcome this small problem in a survival situation than to try and overcome a cut to your hand/wrist.
 
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