Gun for Girlfriend Part 2...

D

drjones

Joined
Sep 6, 2000
Messages
913
Ok. So I went to the gun store the other day, and the guy behind the counter raised an interesting point: He does not recommend a semi-auto of ANY sort for a woman. He recommends a revolver.
Reason being; no slide or clip to mess with on a revolver. No safety of any sort, either. Just point and shoot. Done. This ease of operation is especially important in a self-defense situation, with degredation of fine-motor skills, adrenaline, and fear.

I personally am very uncomfortable with having only 6 shots, but I think I've read here and elsewhere that it is very unlikely that you will need much more than 2-3 rounds, so a revolver would be sufficient.

This does make sense to me, and it seems the ladies in my life may be more comfortable with revolvers. Neither of them seem comfortable with a semi at all. Add to the fact that they do not have any training (other than basic firearm safety, OF COURSE!)

Obviously, a weapon of any sort is as good as a kick in the face if the user is uncomfortable with it in the least.

Agree, disagree?

respectfully,
drjones
 
That sounds like the clerk has some sort of macho 'only men can work a semi' complex. It might be true that some women might have a problem with racking the slide on certain semis, but it's a simple matter to find one which your GF can operate comfortably.

Male or female, what matters is finding a handgun that is comfortable for the specific person. That might be a revolver, or a semi.

Minor nitpick: semis (all that I have ever seen, anyway) use magazines, not clips. Some rifles (M1 Garand, for example) and some revolvers use clips. A clip simply holds rounds, while something else moves it to feed the rounds. A magazine contains a spring (or some other device) which feeds rounds. Not a major mistake (and certainly not an uncommon one), but using the correct terminology will help you when dealing with some people who like to jump on others for using the wrong term.

--JB
 
I agree with you. There are many women shooters who are excellent with semi autos and they can easily manipulate the slides. There are techniques that you can use to rack the slide without relying totally on arm strength. BUT, regardless of strength if she isn't comfortable with the firearm, semi or revolver, she won't shoot it and she won't become proficient with it. Confidence in your weapon and your ability with it is very important.
 
The C96 Mauser pistol used chargers which are frequently called clips. As a point of reference a charger holds rounds which are then shoved into the magazine, a clip holds round and is fed into the magazine with the rounds, and a magazine may either be detachable or fixed and hold the rounds with or without a clip. Take your girlfriend to a range that rents handguns or find a friend or friends that have some and borrow them and let her decide what she wants. That way she ends up getting what she feels comfortable with.
 
for just a casual user i would say a SW chiefs special/colt detective spec/etc cuz they are easier to use. mcy wife carried a DS for years.

if ya are willing to put some time into it, carry an auto, my wife is 5'3 109lbs and carries a SIG P225 9MM, and loves it and shoots pretty darned well,

greg
 
If she is uncomfortable with the weapon, that can be overcome with training. If she is unfamiliar with the manual of arms of the weapon (semi-auto, for example), that can be overcome with training. If you buy something that is too big for her hands, no amount of training can overcome that physical limitation. She may be able to work around it, but why?

In my case, my wife was too small to properly grip any revolver. The sad fact of the matter is even the small .38 'airweights' have a long trigger reach/pull. In all likelihood, my wife in particular would probably be better off with Browning High Power SA than a S&W small .38, simply because of the trigger reach. Any person with the intelligence level higher than a first grader can learn to shoot a semi-automatic pistol. :mad: Not that they should be allowed to, necessarily; nor may they be physically capable, yet (see first paragraph above). That burns me up so bad that if I had another option for gun store, I'd go there instead.

{edited for spelling errors! :mad:}
 
I am also dubious about the clerk's reasoning. However, if you substitute "inexperienced shooter" for "woman" it does make some sense. Revolvers are simpler and easier for someone with minimal training. More training is a better solution, but not everyone wants to put in a lot of time.

I think the key issue, as has been said above, is to match the firearm to the shooter. If your girlfriend is less intimidated by revolvers; start her off with a revolver. If a semi-auto fits her hand better get her one that feels comfortable. Go through the available option and try to pick a handgun that comes closest to meeting her physical and psychological needs.

And if you do end up looking at revolvers, let me recommend the Taurus Model 617, which is my wife's favorite handgun. It is a short, factory-ported, .357 Magnum with an excellent recoil-absorbing grip and a 7-round cylinder. Having the option to use anything from low-end .38 Specials up through hot .357 Magnums makes it easy to find a good compromise of stopping power versus recoil.

Also, since there have been some negative comments about compensated and porting barrels, let me throw in my two cents... I don't think that anyone is likely to be bothered by the side-effects of porting while in the heat of combat. Therefore, I am in favor of anything that makes a gun faster and more controllable.

--Bob Q
 
I stand by my earlier suggestion of a Glock 9mm model 26 or 19. The slide of any of the Glock pistols is easy to operate to chamber a round, if done with the correct technique (push-forward with the receiver, while pulling-back on the slide).:).
 
I guess I have not been over here for a while since I missed the earlier thread. My suggestion is to let your GF decide, take her to the range and let her shoot as many guns as she likes, some of the other shooters will probably let her shoot their guns as well, if you buy the ammo.
If she is not "into" shooting much, I would lean towards a revover, but there are always exceptions.
 
Bquinlan is correct about the noise increase with porting not mattering in combat. For a group project for a cj class my group did a short film about a hypothetical mass murder. The blanks we used to simulate gunfire were very loud in the building we were filming in even with earplugs. I played a cop responding to a 911 call. Even with running in knowing this was a film there was enough increase in adrenalin to make the blanks not seem very loud. Multiply that amount of adrenalin 100X the noise isn't going to matter.
 
It seems that they will let any idiot sell guns. Tens of thousands of females shoot highly modified 1911's for sport and in combat matches. The woman who sang at my wedding (and looks like Loni Anderson) shoots several types of autos and it's her husband that's the revolver guy. She usually bags the bigger deer, as well.

Any woman or small girl and manipulate an auto. Start them on a Ruger 22/45, just like the boys. My wife hates guns, but owns three or four of her own. She prefers double action SW's, but knows where the controls are on any 1911.

Remember Quigley and his view of handguns? He said he didn't like them, not that he didn't know how to use them. Didn't this derelict know that female soldiers are now defending his sorry butt.
 
Take her to the range and practice! That is the most important thing. Let her shoot a bunch of different guns and see what she does best with. My girlfriend can shoot every gun I own including my 12 gauge pistol grip and she is only 5'1" and 110lbs. I also knew a woman around the same size who's favorite pistol was a desert eagle in 44 mag. Just don't buy her some gun so she can stick it in her purse W/O ever firing it then expect her to use it for SD. I wouldn't stake my life on a gun I havn't practiced with.
 
I agree with the shooting range idea. I've taught
many ladies only defense courses and I've noticed
most women will shoot better with something they're
comfortable with. The only limitation I observed with
some women was hand strength which is why trigger
weight is a potential concern for some and why
sometimes I don't recomend revolvers. Yeah you
could argue adrenal dump and all that but remember
she still has to become proficient with what she
is going to use.
 
Don't listen to him.
Take her shopping and shooting instead.
Help her find what she likes and what can she handle.
 
I have to agree with D7 on this. I have people come into the shop quite often wanting to buy a handgun for the wife, and either they want to stick them with the five shot snub or a cheap POS. I usually tell them to bring the wife in and let her check out the different models and that usually works out better. I am guilty of buying the wife a five shot snub, and she really didn't like it, but she still keeps it within reach at the house. One day she tended the shop while I went to an appointment and I guess she played with a few of the pistols because she logged a Glock 19 out and still carries it today.

An indoor shooting range where you could rent a few models for her to shoot would be about the best thing.
 
One reason you might also want to consider a revolver over a semi auto pistol is that the revolver might be better for her shooting ability. What I mean by this is the common habit of some shooters (particularly women) to limp wrist a pistol. This problem leads to the pistol not cycling the next round properly. I have both pistols and revolvers and would recommend learning first on a double action/single action revolver. If I had to recommend a revolver, I would second the ideas in earlier posts of a 7 shot smith and add the option of a covered hammer (this would limit the pistol to double action only but would make it more reliable with regards to it not being prone to snagging on clothes). If I did recommend a pistol, it would be a baby glock. Very compact, damn near indestructible, and high capacity for its size. While there are other great carry guns (i.e. kel tec p32) the glock is the most reliable. Don't fuss with a safety cause its just one more thing to get in the way. While I love my 1911, I wouldn't give it to my girlfriend because she would have to drop the safety before firing. Remember, keep it super simple and sleep easy at night.
kev
 
k_estela: "Limp-wristing" leading to jamming, was exactly the problem the guy at the gun store referred to. See, I STILL think for a semi that the glock would be best, but he said that the most accidental shootings have been with Glocks, and that they were originally military guns.

I still REALLY want my women to get semis, preferably Glocks for several reasons which I will reiterate:

1) No safety to fuss with
2) Proven quality and reliability
3) Higher capacity than a revolver

I think with some training and range time to get comfortable and familiar, they could be happy with a Glock. It's so simple: Keep a full mag, but the chamber empty, so all they have to do is rack the slide and you're set. True, a revolver doesn't have even a slide to fuss with, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that thing floating around her purse fully loaded with no safety at all. I know the chance of an accidental discharge is low, and it takes a substantial force to pull the trigger, but still...

Thanks for your responses so far!
drjones
 
If you want to start with something in a lighter caliber, for her to learn with, a blowback-operated pistol (.380ACP and lower, usually - very few 9mm's operate on the blowback principle) is less sensitive to exactly how it is held than a recoil-operated pistol, so stoppages are less likely while she is learning.

Starting out with a hotter caliber may lead to problems with anticipating recoil. Learning on a caliber that has very little recoil may be helpful, so that she can learn the basics before she has to deal with normal levels of recoil.

--JB
 
Dr. Jones,

I would recommend not carrying the pistol in condition III which is loaded mag and empty chamber. In the confusion of the moment in which lethal force would be needed, a person might not remember that the weapon is unloaded. Also, the ability to rack the slide may be hindered if the assailant has one of the victims arms under his/or her control. A Glock will not go off no matter how hard you drop it on the ground with a loaded chamber. The firing pin does not have the momentum to strike the primer and numerous tests have been done to prove this. Two tips: First, teach your girlfriend to treat the weapon as if it is always loaded. This includes not having her finger in the trigger well until a target is acquired and not grazing over any object she does not want to shoot. Second, buy a good holster with either the Glock or the revolver. As long as you can keep the trigger from being snagged by providing it with a good holster (I recommend Blade-Tech), it will not accidentally discharge. By the way, do not let her purchase one of those purses that looks like a standard shoulder bag but is actually a compartment for a weapon. It is foolish not to carry your weapon on your person because it is more easily stolen away when further from your body. As long as I have had my concealed carry permits I never had a problem with my favorite carry gun, the G19. Please email me if you ever have a question about it b/c I try to answer questions to the best of my ability without any bulls*%t. I want people to be safe carrying weapons legally and don't want to give any advice I wouldn't take myself. I hope this helps and may you and your girlfriend always be safe, happy and fully loaded.
Kev
 
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