Gun & Knife Shop Etiquette

RDaneel

RDaneel

Joined
Apr 23, 2000
Messages
5,501
I had a situation happen today and I wanted to ask the thoughtful and knowledgeable Spyderco Forumites your opinion.

I went shooting today at the local range with a friend. After we got done I told her I wanted to show her a knife. She's never shown any enthusiasm about my knife hobby, but no antagonism either. I just wanted to get her opinion on the knife.

It was the Matriarch (yeah, what a knife to show a non-knife person).

Anyway, the person who showed me the knife took it out of the cabinet; it was opened in the cabinet and when he took it out. I can't remember if he laid it on the counter or handed it to me handle first. I asked my friend if she wanted to hold it (I believe, "No way" was the response). Well, I opened it, closed it, opened it and explained its defensive function. To make this long story have a point > When I handed it back to the range/store employee I gave it to him handle first with the spine towards my thumb. Never having handled a long hawkbill I wasn't as observant as I should have been. You guessed it. The tip sliced my ring finger as he took it from my hand. Not real bad, but immediately bloody. Real impressive when trying to show someone the reasonableness of our hobby.

My question is: What is correct etiquette for handling a knife in a retail store? I'm thinking I don't want to pass one again, either way, that is open. I try to learn something from each time I get cut.

Any thoughts?

Dean

P.S. Sorry I rambled, but this may have set me back in a friend's eyes and I'm a little upset.

[This message has been edited by RDaneel (edited 08-04-2000).]
 
sounds right to me.
always hand it back to them handle first. and always in the same way it was handed to you (open, closed.)

I try to be considerate and use a bandana or something to wipe my acidic fingerprints off the blade as well.

just be careful next time
smile.gif

 
I usually either place it on the top of the cabinet from which it was withdrawn, or hand it back folded. They can open it if they like. No cuts so far. Sorry to hear about your experience with your friend; don't it always happen in front of the ladies?
 
I use the same method(s) as Burke. Not sure if it's the proper etiquette, but it seems safest.

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Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
 
If I set it down on the counter it might be open or closed. If I hand it to someone, it is always closed. There might be some rule of etiquette that says to hand it back in the same position it was handed to you, but I'd rather be safe than polite.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
When I return a blade its..

Folders: Closed
Fixed: Sheathed

I always hold higher end or custom knives with a cloth.

REALLY PISSES me off when I show someone my Nealys and they touch the blade even after I asked them not to.

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My Blades and family
 
I hand 'em back closed as a non threatening gesture.
Ditto the fingerprints.
 
Thanks, all. I'm going with handing back closed. This particular cut was really a surprise (unlike the others, which were planned :-)
 
Being the owner of a knife/gun shop, the only etiquette I can think of is don't hurt yourself.

I don't particularly care if someone hands me a knife opened or closed. I prefer it to be handle first and edge away but I'm not one to stand on ceremony. As long as it lsn't presented in a dangerous or careless manner.

As for me, I usually put the knife on top of the counter when I take one out to show someone. I have had people grab them out of my hand when presented and one time I received a small cut so I just lay them down. Fortunately, most knife people know better than to snatch or grab a knife that way but not everyone.

A couple of things to remember that are just common sense are, one, if you drop a knife, let it fall. Don't try to catch it or, even worse, stop it with your foot. At worst you will cut yourself badly and at best, you will probably seriously damage one of a good pair of shoes or boots. The other thing is, don't wipe the blade off with your shirt. Let the dealer do it with his chamois or rag. Some shirt material can actually scratch the surface of a highly polished blade. Other than that, don't worry about it just use common sense and don't be careless and things will be fine.

Hawkbills are a particular problem as you found out. Your case isn't as rare as you might think. That's why we dealers keep a good supply of band aids handy and, speaking for myself, never, never, NEVER hand a knife to a child on the premesis.

Just to put things in perspective, here's a true story.

My daughter's sister-in-law was looking at my son-in-law's new Spyderco Merlin a few months ago and made a comment, something to the effect of, "wow! You could cut your own throat with one of these!" As she said that she drew the open knife, EDGE FIRST, across her neck, thinking that she was well away from her throat. She was right, and wrong, at the same time. Yes, one could cut their own throat, and no, she wasn't well away from her neck.

Fortunately, she didn't need stitches and the 3/4 inch cut wasn't quite deep enough to catch the carotid artery. She didn't even know that she had cut herself until my daughter saw the blood. This dingbat (no, she isn't a blonde) almost killed herself fooling around. Not something that one would expect from a 29 year old, but you never know. That curved point will fool you and, in the hands of a fool, is especially dangerous. Just be glad you weren't with her.


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Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")

wrightknife@ixpres.com
 
Dennis:
Thanks for the warning. Sometimes it's easy to lose track of possible self-danger with these knives, esp. with the specialized types of blades.

In fact, I've learned long ago to be very careful about trying to show someone a special opening technique in a shop. Once I tried to show how smart I was by using the index finger on the back ridges of a Meyerco Strut 'N Cut to open it, and the thing snapped shut on my ring finger...serrated part of blade. Hurt like hell, but what's worse I stood there a minute pretending nothing happened while blood oozed from my fist.
frown.gif
Finally the young lady behind the counter noticed and helped me clean up/got a bandaid.
Jim
 
Dennis, thanks. It's nice to know what folks think on the other side of the counter. The store did give me a bandaid and said it happened about once a week.

I particularly appreciate the comment about about your daughter's sister-in-law. Proper care around sharp objects and guns should be taught children at a young age.
 
Geez, Dennis. Your story gave me a cold chill.

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Hoodoo

And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.

Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom
 
I, too, have been given a bandaid by a knife dealer. The first time I handled knives with holes in their blades, I was trying out the one handed opening/closing technique with a lock back folder. After releasing the lock and moving the blade 90 degrees, it fell the rest of the way onto my thumb. How embarrassing. Did I just read that the only etiquette is not to cut yourself? Ouch. Oh, and of course my wife was present to document her contention that the person in the most danger when I have a knife in my hand is me.
 
When you hand back a folder at a gun shop or a dealers table , fold it before handing it back.If he states before hand not to close the blade,you can use both hands to set the knife down in front of him,edge facing you.(the two hand method prevents him from prematurily grabbing the blade).Another method is to hand the knife back to the owner handle first.Hold the knife near the pivot pin on a folder, or near the gaurd area of a straight knife with the "spine" of the blade closest to your palm.Other knife courtesy is to ask permission to handle the blade in the first place.Do not wipe the blade off.Most makers will do this after you leave his table.I have had people wipe my blades on their shirts, or, worse yet, on a dirty pair of jeans.This will put "spiderweb" scratches on a blade real quick.I use a red tablecloth at the shows in case of an accident.Not to be crude, but it will hide a blood stain better then a white table cloth.The last thing you want a potential customer to see is blood all over your knife display.Accident will happen.Have a well thoughtout first aid kit with plenty of different sized bandaids plus some "Wet ones" at your table in the event that someone cuts themselves.I've had 3 customers cut themselves at my table since 1983, so it does happen.People like to fondle their next "Potential knife buy".Educate them to knife handling ettiquette and be prepared for a potential mishap.
 
All the knife stores in Boston (all three Stodards) use the jewelry store technique of putting the knife on the counter on a piece of black cloth. I always return it the same way, just lay it on the cloth. I never wipe the blade, I asume they have a clean cloth just for the purpose. If I am looking at a folder I defenitely touch the blade. Who would buy a folder, especial a $100 and up one, without checking blade play and lockup? I try not to scratch it, and I don't try to snap the blade or do a spine whack test, I just try to get a feel for the fit and finish.

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It is not the fall that kills you. It is the realization that "yes, you did something that stupid."
 
I've managed to cut myself a few times. The incident in a competitors store when I put a pretty good ding in my thumb was especially embarrasing. No one is immune.

I, too, had that cold chill feeling when my daughter told me of the incident with the Merlin. I have to admit I was skeptical, until I saw the cut myself. Scary.

Etiquett not withstanding, there are a few things in the store or at shows that I don't approve of when a customer or browser handles a knife.

One of them is to try and bend a folder sideways. When I remind them that they aren't designed to fold that way they usually respond that they are checking for "blade play". With the force that some folks apply, if there isn't play when they start, there will be when they finish.

Snapping a blade open will get a cross look too, if it's done more than once or twice, and a "spine whack test" will get a customer 86'd....permanantly. (To me, that's like driving a car into a tree at 35mph, just to see if the bumper will hold up.)

I keep leather pads near the counters to lay the knives on in the store and chamois to wipe them down after handling.

It's ok to touch the blades on folders and to "test" the edge by feel the way most people do and I don't have a problem with someone sticking a folder into their pocket to see how it fits or rides, as long as they take it back out, or pay for it.
smile.gif


It's uncool to reach over a counter or into a case to pick up anything, I'm more than happy to take it out for you and, once I have laid down in front of you, it isn't necessary to as permission to pick it up.

OTOH, if you are at a table at a show and the knives, or anything else, for that matter are laying on the table, naked, ALWAYS ask before picking something up.

With fixed blades, the only rule I am a stickler on is to take a FB out of the sheath myself before handing it over or laying it down, especially if it's a Kydex or Concealex sheath. I have seen some really nasty lacerations caused by improper manipulation of a knife/sheath combination.

If a sheath holds a knife too securely and it takes some serious effort to disengage whatever is holding the knife in the sheath, then, when it does come loose, it will clear the sheath with authority and anything in the path of the edge WILL get cut. If you hold the sheath the wrong way and pull too hard you will get stitches...if you're lucky. I know of at least one person who needed surgery for some major repair after an incident with a BM Nimravus (A particularly hazardous knife/sheath combo, if you're not careful BTW)

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Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com
 
It' s true, it' s true.
smile.gif


At 2 or 3 past NY Knife shows ago, a rude individual barrelled his way thru browsing attendees at the table of Bob and Linda Dozier. He proceeded to snatch up a large fixed blade from the table and executed a wild draw from its kydex sheath. Guess where his fingers were when holding its sheath. Guess where they were after drawing the blade! Yup, just like Dennis said. Lots of blood, lots of stitches. What a buffoon! He didn' t even have the courtesy of picking up the knife from the floor!
smile.gif


L8r,
Nakano

BTW- it is a good idea to have a bottle of liquid hand disinfectant/ anti- bacterial on hand.


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"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."


[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 08-10-2000).]
 
At a knife show, I like to put a few band-aids out on my table with a little note saying "We live in an orderly universe."

And the people I need to reach don't read thise forums, or I'd say that if you don't know how to release a lockback or a liner lock, please don't fumble with it or try to force it. Just put it down gently, or hand it to me slowly, and I'll show how it works.

Also, don't tell me "You could really hurt somebody with this." I already know it's an orderly universe, and the observation is not original.

And please don't make cracks about how O.J. would love to buy my knives. I've sometimes put another little sign on the table saying "$1 fine for O.J. jokes!"


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
I'll echo what James says on the O.J. jokes. they're old, stale and never were funny.

About the only exception to that was when Jonathan Winters stopped by my tables at the Ventura show, awhile back. He had a few folks in "stitches" (sorry....couldn't resist
biggrin.gif
) making coments about O.J. and how he could have used two hands, etc., etc.

Since he was playing to the group around him I didn't comment. Didn't laugh much either although he is a nice guy and is really funny when the subject is right.

Band-aids, hand disinfectant, good rags and paper towels should be a part of every exhibitor's kit, whether at a show or in the store.

As james said, the folks who really need to know this stuff don't post on these forums (although it's nice to think they might be lurking out there....reading, and learning.) so a lot of this is "preaching to the choir" but, hey, it's nice to have a refresher course now & then.

Personally, I'm not convinced of the orderliness of the universe so I keep a close eye on the part of it that surrounds me and my stuff.

------------------
Dennis Wright
("Have a knife day!")
Wright Knife & Sporting Goods
La Mesa, CA
1-800-400-1980
wrightknife@ixpres.com
 
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