-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Guns- how to transfer ownership title?
- Thread starter Nismo
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2003
- Messages
- 888
In Texas you can buy a used gun and not have to register it or do paper work. But that may not be the case where you are. Find a liscend dealer.
Peace
Peace
Yeah, just take it to a gun shop near you. Most here in Indiana will do a transfer for $15-$20 and most of their business comes from people buying online or through Shotgun News or some such.
You'll have to have a NICS check and whatever the state of Cali requires, and you'll have to fill out a Form 4473 to be sent to the Feds.
You'll have to have a NICS check and whatever the state of Cali requires, and you'll have to fill out a Form 4473 to be sent to the Feds.
From the RSR Wholesale dealer side of their site (yes, I am a licensed FFL 
)
CALIFORNIA DEALERS
HANDGUN LAWS INFORMATION
Recent changes in California state law are having a considerable impact on the shooting sports industry. RSR Group hopes you find the following information helpful.
It is unlawful for dealers to sell handguns that are not listed on the Department of Justice (DOJ) roster of certified handguns ("DOJ List"). If the manufacturer¹s model number of the gun does not appear on the DOJ List, it has not been approved for sale by the DOJ.
A listing of certified handgun models is available on the DOJ website at: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/certlist.htm.
Listings, including periodic updates, are also available from the DOJ by fax upon request.
Frequently Asked Questions:
1. If I, as a retail dealer, purchase a handgun from a distributor or manufacturer, may I assume that it has been approved for sale in California by the DOJ?
No. It is your responsibility at the time of purchase to make sure that the particular model is on the DOJ List. Rest assured, however, that RSR takes all precautions to prevent an unapproved handgun from being sold to its California dealers.
2. Is there an exemption for single action revolvers?
Yes, provided that the gun has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7.5 inches when the handle, frame and barrel are assembled.
3. As a licensed dealer, are there any other exemptions that may be of interest to me?
There are limited exceptions for curio/relic handguns, Olympic pistols and sales to law enforcement. These exemptions are defined in a DOJ Information Bulletin dated December 12, 2000, which may be obtained from the DOJ website.
4. Are the Regulations applicable to the sale of used handguns?
Yes.
SEE ADDITIONAL FAQs PROVIDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
The following information specifies what tests a handgun must pass in order to be California approved:
The "firing requirement for handguns" means a test in which the manufacturer provides three handguns of the make and model for which certification is sought to an independent testing laboratory certified by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 12130. These handguns should not be, in any way, modified from those that would be sold if certification is granted. The laboratory shall fire 600 rounds from each gun, stopping after each series of 50 rounds has been fired for 5 to 10 minutes to allow the weapon to cool, stopping after each series of 100 rounds has been fired to tighten any loose screws and clean the gun in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and stopping as needed to refill the empty magazine or cylinder to capacity before continuing. The ammunition used shall be of the type recommended by the handgun manufacturer in the user manual, or if none is recommended, any standard ammunition of the correct caliber in new condition. A handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns meets both of the following:
(1) Fires the first 20 rounds without a malfunction that is not due to faulty magazine or ammunition.
(2) Fires the full 600 rounds with no more than six malfunctions that are not due to faulty magazine or ammunition and without any crack or breakage of an operating part of the handgun that increases the risk of injury to the user.
If a pistol or revolver fails the requirements of either paragraph (1) or (2) of subdivision (a) due to either a faulty magazine or faulty ammunition, the pistol or revolver shall be retested from the beginning of the "firing requirement for handguns" test. A new model of the pistol or revolver that failed due to a faulty magazine or ammunition may be submitted for the test to replace the pistol or revolver that failed.
As used in this section, "malfunction" means a failure to properly feed, fire, or eject a round, or failure of a pistol to accept or reject a manufacturer-approved magazine, or failure of a pistol's slide to remain open after a manufacturer-approved magazine has been expended.
An "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:
For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.
For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.
FAQs from the Department of Justice Web Site
These additional FAQs were asked by California dealers and answered by the Department of Justice. We feel that they will also be helpful to you.
1. How do I process a curio/relic handgun exempted from the requirements of SB 15?
>From the main menu on the PSD/CI DES select the Curio/Relic/Olympic/SB 15 Exempt menu, and complete the handgun DROS entry screen. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is a Curio/Relic/Olympic/SB 15-Exempt.
2. How do I process an Olympic target shooting pistol that is exempted pursuant to AB 2351?
>From the main menu PSD/CI DROS entry screen select Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/SB 15-Exempt and complete the handgun DROS entry screen. Be sure that the pistol model you enter is one that is listed in subdivision (h) of PC section 12132. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is a Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/SB 15-Exempt.
3. Can a fully licensed California firearms dealer accept a "dealer to dealer" transfer from out of state when the handgun is not listed on the DOJ roster of certified handguns?
EXAMPLE: A California resident would like to purchase a handgun while on vacation in Nevada and requests the Nevada dealer to ship the firearm to a licensed California Dealer.
No, unless the handgun is listed on the DOJ roster of certified handguns. If the handgun is listed on the DOJ roster, then the transaction would be processed as a "Handgun Dealer Sale" while adhering to the SB 15 processing instructions addressed in this bulletin.
4. Can a dealer who has transferred his/her dealership inventory of non-certified handguns into his/her personal collection, using the DROS process, sell any of these handguns as a "Private Party" after January 1, 2001?
A dealer may sell privately owned non-certified handguns from his/her personal collection by processing the transaction as a "Private Party" transfer. However, this is in recognition of a dealer¹s private handgun collection pursuant to 27 CFR 178.125a, PC section 12078, subdivision (n), and 12072, subdivision (9)(B)(vii), and is NOT viewed by the California DOJ as an exception to PC section 12125, et. seq., which would enable a dealer to transfer the non-certified handguns from his/her dealer stock to personal possession in order for resale to circumvent the requirements of SB 15.
In addition, a dealer must wait a year after placing handguns in his/her personal inventory (27 CFR 178.125a) before selling them. The dealer shall complete the DROS as a private party transaction and must comply with the statutory requirement of "infrequent" firearm sales because under this particular circumstance, the dealer is acting as a "private party" and not a "dealer" (PC 12070(c)(i)(A)).
5. Can a dealer sell a frame or receiver that is listed on the roster of certified handguns?
No. PC section 12131.5 states that a firearm cannot be altered in dimension, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, barrel, chamber, or any components of the firing mechanism of the firearm, from the certified firearm. Consequently, dealers may sell only complete firearms as approved for placement on the roster.
6. If a dealer takes in a non-certified handgun for repair, can it be returned to the owner?
Yes, return of a handgun to its owner, if brought in for repair, is allowed.
7. A law enforcement agency wishes to purchase non-certified duty handguns for its officers. Can I process this sale?
Yes. Law enforcement agencies are exempt from the provisions of SB 15 (PC section 12125 (b)(4)). To process such transactions from the main menu, select the "Peace Officer" transaction menu and complete the handgun DROS screen. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is "Peace Officer."
8. Can shooting ranges continue to rent non-certified handguns?
Yes, provided that the loan occurs on the premises of the target facility and the handgun is at all times kept within the premises of the target range (PC sections 12132(b), 12078(h)).
For Further Information:
If you would like to view the text of the regulations or SB 15, please go to the DOJ Web site at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms. If you have any questions regarding this Information, the laboratory certification process, or the handgun testing program, please call the Firearms Information Services Section at (916)227-3703.
===============================
Pawnshops are also a viable option for Firearms transfer as they are ATF licensed as well.
Are you transferring due to liability concerns? Is this a gift? Are there state restrictions forcing the formal transfer (I do not deal with California firearms transactions)?
)CALIFORNIA DEALERS
HANDGUN LAWS INFORMATION
Recent changes in California state law are having a considerable impact on the shooting sports industry. RSR Group hopes you find the following information helpful.
It is unlawful for dealers to sell handguns that are not listed on the Department of Justice (DOJ) roster of certified handguns ("DOJ List"). If the manufacturer¹s model number of the gun does not appear on the DOJ List, it has not been approved for sale by the DOJ.
A listing of certified handgun models is available on the DOJ website at: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/certlist.htm.
Listings, including periodic updates, are also available from the DOJ by fax upon request.
Frequently Asked Questions:
1. If I, as a retail dealer, purchase a handgun from a distributor or manufacturer, may I assume that it has been approved for sale in California by the DOJ?
No. It is your responsibility at the time of purchase to make sure that the particular model is on the DOJ List. Rest assured, however, that RSR takes all precautions to prevent an unapproved handgun from being sold to its California dealers.
2. Is there an exemption for single action revolvers?
Yes, provided that the gun has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at least 7.5 inches when the handle, frame and barrel are assembled.
3. As a licensed dealer, are there any other exemptions that may be of interest to me?
There are limited exceptions for curio/relic handguns, Olympic pistols and sales to law enforcement. These exemptions are defined in a DOJ Information Bulletin dated December 12, 2000, which may be obtained from the DOJ website.
4. Are the Regulations applicable to the sale of used handguns?
Yes.
SEE ADDITIONAL FAQs PROVIDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
The following information specifies what tests a handgun must pass in order to be California approved:
The "firing requirement for handguns" means a test in which the manufacturer provides three handguns of the make and model for which certification is sought to an independent testing laboratory certified by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 12130. These handguns should not be, in any way, modified from those that would be sold if certification is granted. The laboratory shall fire 600 rounds from each gun, stopping after each series of 50 rounds has been fired for 5 to 10 minutes to allow the weapon to cool, stopping after each series of 100 rounds has been fired to tighten any loose screws and clean the gun in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and stopping as needed to refill the empty magazine or cylinder to capacity before continuing. The ammunition used shall be of the type recommended by the handgun manufacturer in the user manual, or if none is recommended, any standard ammunition of the correct caliber in new condition. A handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns meets both of the following:
(1) Fires the first 20 rounds without a malfunction that is not due to faulty magazine or ammunition.
(2) Fires the full 600 rounds with no more than six malfunctions that are not due to faulty magazine or ammunition and without any crack or breakage of an operating part of the handgun that increases the risk of injury to the user.
If a pistol or revolver fails the requirements of either paragraph (1) or (2) of subdivision (a) due to either a faulty magazine or faulty ammunition, the pistol or revolver shall be retested from the beginning of the "firing requirement for handguns" test. A new model of the pistol or revolver that failed due to a faulty magazine or ammunition may be submitted for the test to replace the pistol or revolver that failed.
As used in this section, "malfunction" means a failure to properly feed, fire, or eject a round, or failure of a pistol to accept or reject a manufacturer-approved magazine, or failure of a pistol's slide to remain open after a manufacturer-approved magazine has been expended.
An "unsafe handgun" means any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12001, for which any of the following is true:
For a revolver:
(1) It does not have a safety device that, either automatically in the case of a double-action firing mechanism, or by manual operation in the case of a single-action firing mechanism, causes the hammer to retract to a point where the firing pin does not rest upon the primer of the cartridge.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.
For a pistol:
(1) It does not have a positive manually operated safety device, as determined by standards relating to imported guns promulgated by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.
(2) It does not meet the firing requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12127.
(3) It does not meet the drop safety requirement for handguns pursuant to Section 12128.
FAQs from the Department of Justice Web Site
These additional FAQs were asked by California dealers and answered by the Department of Justice. We feel that they will also be helpful to you.
1. How do I process a curio/relic handgun exempted from the requirements of SB 15?
>From the main menu on the PSD/CI DES select the Curio/Relic/Olympic/SB 15 Exempt menu, and complete the handgun DROS entry screen. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is a Curio/Relic/Olympic/SB 15-Exempt.
2. How do I process an Olympic target shooting pistol that is exempted pursuant to AB 2351?
>From the main menu PSD/CI DROS entry screen select Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/SB 15-Exempt and complete the handgun DROS entry screen. Be sure that the pistol model you enter is one that is listed in subdivision (h) of PC section 12132. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is a Curio/Relic/Olympic Pistol/SB 15-Exempt.
3. Can a fully licensed California firearms dealer accept a "dealer to dealer" transfer from out of state when the handgun is not listed on the DOJ roster of certified handguns?
EXAMPLE: A California resident would like to purchase a handgun while on vacation in Nevada and requests the Nevada dealer to ship the firearm to a licensed California Dealer.
No, unless the handgun is listed on the DOJ roster of certified handguns. If the handgun is listed on the DOJ roster, then the transaction would be processed as a "Handgun Dealer Sale" while adhering to the SB 15 processing instructions addressed in this bulletin.
4. Can a dealer who has transferred his/her dealership inventory of non-certified handguns into his/her personal collection, using the DROS process, sell any of these handguns as a "Private Party" after January 1, 2001?
A dealer may sell privately owned non-certified handguns from his/her personal collection by processing the transaction as a "Private Party" transfer. However, this is in recognition of a dealer¹s private handgun collection pursuant to 27 CFR 178.125a, PC section 12078, subdivision (n), and 12072, subdivision (9)(B)(vii), and is NOT viewed by the California DOJ as an exception to PC section 12125, et. seq., which would enable a dealer to transfer the non-certified handguns from his/her dealer stock to personal possession in order for resale to circumvent the requirements of SB 15.
In addition, a dealer must wait a year after placing handguns in his/her personal inventory (27 CFR 178.125a) before selling them. The dealer shall complete the DROS as a private party transaction and must comply with the statutory requirement of "infrequent" firearm sales because under this particular circumstance, the dealer is acting as a "private party" and not a "dealer" (PC 12070(c)(i)(A)).
5. Can a dealer sell a frame or receiver that is listed on the roster of certified handguns?
No. PC section 12131.5 states that a firearm cannot be altered in dimension, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, barrel, chamber, or any components of the firing mechanism of the firearm, from the certified firearm. Consequently, dealers may sell only complete firearms as approved for placement on the roster.
6. If a dealer takes in a non-certified handgun for repair, can it be returned to the owner?
Yes, return of a handgun to its owner, if brought in for repair, is allowed.
7. A law enforcement agency wishes to purchase non-certified duty handguns for its officers. Can I process this sale?
Yes. Law enforcement agencies are exempt from the provisions of SB 15 (PC section 12125 (b)(4)). To process such transactions from the main menu, select the "Peace Officer" transaction menu and complete the handgun DROS screen. Telephonic dealers must advise the DES CSR that the transaction type is "Peace Officer."
8. Can shooting ranges continue to rent non-certified handguns?
Yes, provided that the loan occurs on the premises of the target facility and the handgun is at all times kept within the premises of the target range (PC sections 12132(b), 12078(h)).
For Further Information:
If you would like to view the text of the regulations or SB 15, please go to the DOJ Web site at http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms. If you have any questions regarding this Information, the laboratory certification process, or the handgun testing program, please call the Firearms Information Services Section at (916)227-3703.
===============================
Pawnshops are also a viable option for Firearms transfer as they are ATF licensed as well.
Are you transferring due to liability concerns? Is this a gift? Are there state restrictions forcing the formal transfer (I do not deal with California firearms transactions)?
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2000
- Messages
- 3,140
In California you have to go to an FFL (your local gun store) and fill out the transfer forms. The gun has to stay in the posession of the FFL for the proscribed waiting period just as if you were buying a new gun, and if for some reason the background check says you aren't elligable to get that gun, then it can only be released back to your uncle, or if it turns out that he is not elligable, then I believe the gun get's confiscated. I once did a trade where it turned out the other party couldn't legally own a gun. The guy at the gun store called and told me the news. He said, "the bad news is, your buddy has a violent misdemeanor conviction which means I can't release the gun to him, the good news is that you now own both guns, because his transfer to you went fine".
It seems most shops want $30-$40 to do the deal, although teh actual DROS fees are only about $15.00.
jmx
It seems most shops want $30-$40 to do the deal, although teh actual DROS fees are only about $15.00.
jmx
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,770
Sid brought up a question worth thinking about. Unless there's something peculiar about California gun law that I'm unaware of, it would be perfectly legal for you to keep and use your uncle's gun, with his permission, without transferring legal ownership. Unless there's some reason to do that, why bother?
You really need to consult somebody who's familiar with the legal situation in California. Every state is different. Talk to a dealer, or go to a local gun club. Rod & Gun clubs are a tremendous resource; they're full of friendly people who know all kinds of things -- a lot like Bladeforums, but they know the particular things you need to find out about. The easiest way to find out about the local clubs is to go into a gun shop and ask.
You really need to consult somebody who's familiar with the legal situation in California. Every state is different. Talk to a dealer, or go to a local gun club. Rod & Gun clubs are a tremendous resource; they're full of friendly people who know all kinds of things -- a lot like Bladeforums, but they know the particular things you need to find out about. The easiest way to find out about the local clubs is to go into a gun shop and ask.
Good Evening All-
Nismo, conduct YOUR OWN RESEARCH via the Internet to obtain actual text of the law. Don't rely solely upon online bulletin boards because invariably you'll get plenty of erroneous information. Visit a local meeting at the Rod & Reel Club to confirm your findings.
Most FFL holders wouldn't steer you wrong to make a lousy $30.00 or so. You could become a future customer to them!
Your state may simply allow simple transfer of ownership on a handshake. Why would you want to put that firearm on a government database unnecessarily? I'm puzzled why so many here advocate running to "Big Government" for the answers...
Good Luck!
~ Blue Jays ~
Nismo, conduct YOUR OWN RESEARCH via the Internet to obtain actual text of the law. Don't rely solely upon online bulletin boards because invariably you'll get plenty of erroneous information. Visit a local meeting at the Rod & Reel Club to confirm your findings.
Most FFL holders wouldn't steer you wrong to make a lousy $30.00 or so. You could become a future customer to them!
Your state may simply allow simple transfer of ownership on a handshake. Why would you want to put that firearm on a government database unnecessarily? I'm puzzled why so many here advocate running to "Big Government" for the answers...
Good Luck!
~ Blue Jays ~
Some people like to keep it legal. Is an old rifle really worth a FELONY conviction and prison time?
A "handshake" deal may actually be legal where you live. It isn't legal everywhere. State laws differ as you move around. That's part of the reason I currently live in Arizona.
Good Evening All-
Sid, you are an exceptionally intelligent and logical person from what I've read in your posts over the years. Please carefully reread my post from yesterday...
I simply suggested for Nismo to conduct his/her own research and then verify same when he/she had reached a conclusion. You'll see that I NEVER suggested for a felony to be committed. No flame intended.
Simply put: If "your" state of residency allows for simple firearms transactions between family members, there is no need to add superfluous governmental paperwork. Adhere to applicable law, no more, no less.
Regards,
~ Blue Jays ~
Sid, you are an exceptionally intelligent and logical person from what I've read in your posts over the years. Please carefully reread my post from yesterday...
I simply suggested for Nismo to conduct his/her own research and then verify same when he/she had reached a conclusion. You'll see that I NEVER suggested for a felony to be committed. No flame intended.
Simply put: If "your" state of residency allows for simple firearms transactions between family members, there is no need to add superfluous governmental paperwork. Adhere to applicable law, no more, no less.
Regards,
~ Blue Jays ~
Blue Jays, perhaps I miss-read your post. Having seen similar posts taken out of context many times on other forums, I may over react at times. Better safe then sorry as the saying goes.
The real rub comes in when people living in different states discuss topics such as this. Both parties can be legal where they live and, a third party reads what is posted, doesn't check with their local officials of the "Big Government" and gets themselves into trouble.
In my many years of experience, I have personally seen all sorts of bad things happen. Almost always due to similar statements taken out of context. As an FFL, I can do many things that are legal for me and another FFL, that are felonies when non-FFL's are on either end of the transactions in question. Better safe then sorry and, since it is the "Big Government" people who will determine what the law says and prosecute you, "running" to them is an appropriate thing to do in many cases if you want to avoid large legal bills and possible jail time.
The real rub comes in when people living in different states discuss topics such as this. Both parties can be legal where they live and, a third party reads what is posted, doesn't check with their local officials of the "Big Government" and gets themselves into trouble.
In my many years of experience, I have personally seen all sorts of bad things happen. Almost always due to similar statements taken out of context. As an FFL, I can do many things that are legal for me and another FFL, that are felonies when non-FFL's are on either end of the transactions in question. Better safe then sorry and, since it is the "Big Government" people who will determine what the law says and prosecute you, "running" to them is an appropriate thing to do in many cases if you want to avoid large legal bills and possible jail time.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,066
Since your uncle in CA wants to give a gun to you in CA the requirements may be a little different than the sale of a firearm. Email Jim Shirley over at thehighroad.org (JShirley@theHighRoad.org ) and ask. Considering the byzantine gun laws in CA, even those limiting exchanges between individuals, I'd both get in contact with Jim and a local gun shop.
