Gunting as Life Hammer

S

Sierra1

Joined
Apr 7, 2001
Messages
93
OK, here's the deal - I love my Gunting, but quite honestly I have been struggling as to how to portray it as anything but a weapon in the eyes of the law. Then, as I was driving home today, I was manipulating the Gunting Trainer with one hand (please, no lectures on driving while distracted, and it hit me (idea, not Gunting) as to how similar the Gunting shape was to a Life Hammer auto rescue tool.

For those of you not familiar, the Life Hammer is like a little hammer with pointy ends, which are used to break auto glass in the event of an accident which prevents the doors from being opened. They are used either by the occupants to exit the vehicle, or the first responders to extract the victims. Often, they have a little recessed razor blade in the handle to cut the seat belt to aid in exit/extraction.

Now, think of the Gunting - the horns on the blade would work perfectly to break the glass, and the blade for the seat belt. I could easily envision a version of the Gunting with a sheepsfoot style rescue blade that could be marketed for just this purpose (Sal - hint, hint!!)

So from now on, my Gunting is an auto rescue tool. Yeah, that's it...a rescue tool...sure, that's the ticket. And if Spyderco ever comes out with one that has a rescue-style blade, I'll be first in line.

Whaddya think?
;) :D
 
I think someone from Skunksworks told me in an e-mail that there was a custom Gunting out there with a sheepsfoot blade.

My excuse for the horn: it's a marlin spike!

In part of another thread a while back I asked what other excuses people had. I didn't get any answers to that part of my question. I'd like to see what people have to say this time.
 
Sierra1 -- I think maybe you ought to take the time to go out to a junkyard and see if you can find some intact windows to see if, in fact, the horn of the gunting will break auto windows.

I say this because all of the designated glass breakers I've seen/read about have a tungsten sharp pointed little tip to do the job. I know some of them recommend only pushing on the glass with the breaker, while some advise using a solid, sharp rap on the glass.

In general, glass is harder than steel. Tungsten, tho is harder than glass -- I think??

You also, of course, run the risk of encountering an LEO who knows something about knives, and who knows that the Gunting is advertised as a fighting knife. (See Knife Center)

Yours is an imaginative solution to a potential problem, but nevertheless is fraught with peril on 2 potential fronts.

My $.02 worth.
 
The Gunting will indeed break car windows, but it is the ramp which works best via a tomahawk strike. If you are feeling robust you can also achieve this with the persian butt and a hammer blow. In either case wearing gloves is advisable to prevent small cuts on your hands.

Your excuse may work in some instances but don't count on it; straight up is usually the best approach with LEOs.
 
As a longtime Spyderco fan, Gunting owner, and LEO, I have to ask: Why is a "cover story" necessary? Are there jurisdictions where carrying a Gunting is illegal? :confused: I am referring to public carry, not air travel/governmental buildings & installations/schools etc. Has there been a problem with LE harrassment of Gunting carriers in your area? :confused:

Nearly every LEO has worked at least part of their career in Patrol or Traffic, and have seen most of the extrication tools used by Rescue and EMS personnel. Also, as was stated above, a lot of LEO's are fairly knife savvy, and (at least in my area) Spyderco is the knife of choice for LE carry, so chances are that most would be rather amused at the "Life Hammer" explanation...and a bit curious as to the necessity of it. I know that I certainly would be. The "Life Hammer" explanation MIGHT work with some Private Security or specialized LE personnel that have no background in street patrol, but I don't think that many street cops would buy into it.

I do realize that, with the current emphasis in LE training in regards to edged weapon defense, there may be overzealous officers out there "looking for a problem". But I should think that, overall, the criteria for carrying a Gunting should be the same as for any other folder - blade length, and possibly serrated edge. The knife is either legal to carry or it's not. You shouldn't have to contrive a story to carry your Gunting.

JMHO :)
 
Thanks to all for your input on this.

Let me provide a little more insight as to my rationale. Where I live (MN), there are no specific length laws per se, but rather knives are governed by a "Dangerous Weapons" statute which speaks to the design and/or intent (as in "any object used or is intended to be used as a weapon capable of inflicting gross bodily harm"). Thus, the stated intent of the carrier often becomes a key factor in the discretion of the officer.

My intent along this line of thinking was "How do I take a tool specifically designed and marketed as a defensive weapon, and provide a rationale for carry that is credibly more "tool-related". Of course this only applies to situations where I might be questioned about the obviously visible ramp of the Gunting protruding from my pocket - a defensive-use aftermath scenario would be much more complicated. In both situations, a sheepsfoot blade would make things more legally defensible.

I am not trying to deceive here, but rather attempting to reframe the bias against the "evil-looking knife", in a media-driven world where appearance and form has become more important than function.

I am certainly open to other suggestions on this.

Thanks!
 
crecy and Town Sergeant,
I would not lie to an LEO. If I had to explain my knife to an LEO I would say as little as possible. I agree with Sierra though. Where I live we also do not have explicit length limits. We just can't carry "weapons." Cops in Baltimore DO NOT like us carrying stuff for self-defense. If they see a knife and think it's a tool, then all is ok. But if the same knife somehow becomes classified as a "weapon" then you are a crazy attacker. "Weapon" means "criminal" in my neck of the woods.

Anyway, having a good excuse on hand is also good for sheeple you meet on a daily basis. "What's that for?" Hmmmm.... what sounds better?: "It can be used as a weapon while closed," or "it breaks windows in a car crash." Sheeple don't seem to realize that a weapon serves a defensive purpose, not only and offensive purpose. It is for these people primarily that I brainstorm lines.
 
Thanks for the clarification on your local statutes, gentlemen. I believe that I can see what you're up against. :( I've been lucky enough to have worked in jurisdictions that are merely blade length specific on folders, using state code or Federal specifications as enforcement guidelines. Good Luck! :)
 
OK its not a "fighting Knife" If some dealer / distributor cares to portray it that way I guess we have to call them on it..and let them know its not..
If you've seen the official Spyderco ads, which in full color call it the Design for Law Enforcement Professionals, you can see that the savy LEO as you call them will already know..That a majority of LEO-Police magazines are calling it "the best argument existing for Police to carry a knife".."the best less than Lethal tool ever made".."The best answer to an officer carrying a knife..".. " the boldest, historic design to allow LEO 's to use the whole force comtiuum..."..
I doubt they see it as Knife Center alledgedly calls it "a fighting knife"

Since its making the rounds of several LEO agencies @ both local and state level..going through growing pains and usage in Federal circles..and has been tried by LEO in France, Israel, Germany..
I doubt any USA LEO is going to jump on the Gunting cause you a citizen carry it...
Especially cause it has non lethal usage, its an EDC carry and its a friendly less than three inch MBC knife..
and as you said they know already..

Yes..it already breaks glass..
and windshields..been there done that..here and abroad..

The ultimate rescue version is on hold..
Spyderco is redoing the old Rescue without Gunting influence...
and no no sheeps foot blade nor Warncliff for a standard Gunting..
it can't do what I want without a point on it...no pac man bites..no pin pricks..no tip rips...ROFL

thanks to all of you

Bram
 
Here we go again! I carry my Gunting every working day in Washington, DC, where the law specifies a > 3" blade. Since I havde arthritic hands, I have found that most knives with > 3" blades do not work well for me, as they are also reduced in other dimensions as well. The Mini-Dyad is a good example of this, as is the BenchMade 770, much as I love it a Gentleman's Pocketknife. The Gunting, on the other hand, has a very large hilt and oversized controls which, while intended for other purposes, work admirably well as ergonomic grips and controls for someone with stiff joints. Think of the ergonomic kitchen tools that you may have seen in very expensive catalogues and you'll get the picture. Now, like Bram, I object to people calling this a "Fighting Knife", for I do not use it as such, and have no intention of ever doing so. For me, it is a utility knife for someone with arthritic hands.
 
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