Gurkha House should Make Scottish Dirks (illustrated post)

tallwingedgoat

tallwingedgoat

Joined
Jan 13, 1999
Messages
1,422
I GOT IT!

Gurkha House should make Scottish Dirks. And maybe a few English and Viking Saxs for the project after that.

The dirks are about the same size as khukuris, comes with two accessory knives in the sheath, even has a simliar handle construction. Unsurpisingly modern dirks also tend to be made of 5160. Of course, Craig will have to do some research on Victorian and Elizabethan Scottish dirk styles.

Scottish driks are very in vougue with Americans as is pretty much all things Celtic. (read Braveheart fever) People like to wear them to Rennaisance (I will learn how to spell that) Fairs and Scottish Highland Games. Historically dirks served a simliar purpose as khukuris. No wonder the Highland regiments got along so famously with the Gurkhas.

Anyway here's some pictures of modern work. I've seen them go from $200 to $3,000 depending on complexity. If there is a dirk at GH khukuri prices, I'd buy one.

<img src = "http://www.atar.com/pics/012-9902-002.jpg">
<img src = "http://www.tinkerblades.com/img47.gif">
<img src = "http://www.tinkerblades.com/img49.gif">
<img src = "http://swordforum.com/fall99/mcrae-3.jpg">
<img src = "http://swordforum.com/fall99/mcrae-4.jpg">

Go here to see a nice page on these things: http://swordforum.com/fall99/mcrae-1.html

So Craig, can you picture yourself in a kilt selling these things at Highland fairs?

[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 12 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
If you have the blood in you a dirk is just what you need. Wish I had thought of that one. I think that its a great idea.
 
GREAT IDEA TWG!!!

I would _love_ to have a Nepali-made Scottish dirk.

Especially if it was produced in the more function-oriented style of a blade before 1745.

That would be great!

-Dave

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"Show me a woman who likes beer and I will conquer the world!"
Bierland.com

 
One word: Beautiful!!!!! Especially the first picture - simple and elegant.

I definitely have my work cut out for me! I think it won't be a problem really - I'll just pick the top 3 or four designs we've discussed, name them (for the sake of tracking orders), and then get prototypes made. After that, it'll be off to the races.

I have to say - I LOVE the dirk. I don't see myself going to scottish fairs (even though I'm half scottish)
smile.gif


I think I'll just have to buy one of those dirks to take with me.



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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
For what it is worth I too like the first one the best. In my opinion it is a "real" dirk the others are too fancy anyway.
 
Dirkuris they are, Blackdog!!!!! I'm excited to get my hands on one of those.

Tallwinged: Any idea of the thickness of the blade along the center point? I bet the Kamis would do a beefier model.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
This is a very interesting idea! I agree with the other forumites’ preference for a less ornate, more functional dirk (along the lines of the first image). By the way, TWG, is that one of Dr. Jim Hrisoulas’ dirks? I’ve got one of his Celtic daggers and the handle construction looks very similar…cool stuff.

Jim
 
Hi all,

I'm in Singapore at this moment. Good thing I found a connection.

UglyJim,

Yes the top picture is Dr. JPH's work. That one went for $225. Can you tell me how JPH's handle differ from a khukuri? And does his work include a sheath or is it extra? Thanks.

Craig,

I don't know much about dirks but I would venture to guess they're going to be a lot thinner than khukuris. Probably 1/4 to 5/16" thick, as they are more utility knives, and weapons than hacking tools. The blade is about 14-15" long.

If you follow the link I provided, that article has some interesting thing to say about dirk handle design and even has some pictures of simpler dirks. When you go to Nepal, please bring lots of photo copies of various dirks to serve as inspiration. There should be some good books on the subject. One thing I noticed Scottish weapons like to have is metal studs on the handle. Can the kamis make them in place of rings? They are probably just thin nails with a round head.

I'm not Scottish by a long shot. But I buy khukuris without being a Nepali.


[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 13 December 1999).]
 
About the side pieces, driks tend to have a little knife and a little fork. Both have a metal blade about 4" long. I think a sheepfoot/Wharncliffe (sp?) style karda would be very appropriate.

BTW, here are some more pictures for those that appreciate Dr. JPH's work: a Sgain Dudh, a Celtic dagger, and a Sax.

<img src = "http://www.atar.com/pics/028-9902-002.jpg">
<img src = "http://www.atar.com/pics/014-9811-002.jpg">
<img src = "http://www.atar.com/pics/013-9811-002.jpg">

Not strictly traditional, but distinctively Hrisoulas.

[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 13 December 1999).]
 
I would also prefer the first dirk in TWG's first post.

On the other hand, the Sax from TWG's most recent post seems to "call to me". It kinda reminds me of a sleeker version of the Indonesian "parong". A pair of those would make a formidable pair indeed.

Dave.
 
TWG –

The handle construction on Dr. JPH’s Celtic dagger is really pretty similar to a traditional khukuri. The primary differences (on my piece, which is just like the illustration you posted) are the material used (bone) and the absence of a large bolster between the handle and the blade. A flat brass plate is used in lieu of a bolster; a similar plate is secured to the butt with a brass pommel nut at the end of a spike tang (I’m probably using incorrect terminology). Both plates are contoured to match the cross section of the bone handle. The bone appears to be left in its natural shape and increases in diameter near the butt, which should aid in grip retention (again, similar to a khukuri). The absence of a guard could be a bit of a problem in a thrusting weapon like a dirk or dagger; you’d have to exercise some care to keep your hand from sliding up onto the blade. From the pictures you posted, it looks like JPH’s dirk has the same type of construction.

My Celtic dagger came with a very simple but sturdy leather sheath…I think that all of JPH’s belt knives come with a similar sheath. If Gurkha House develops a “dirk” project, I’d kinda like to see a straight leather-wrapped wooden sheath with a chape (the khukuri parallels continue!). Hope this helps…

A sax would be another good addition to the product line...

Jim


[This message has been edited by UglyJim (edited 14 December 1999).]
 
Just a note to bring this to the top. This is one thing we've printed out and will take to Nepal with us for consideration.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Just when I thought I couldn't possibly love this forum more. AWESOME IDEA. As you may gather from the name, I too proudly claim scots heritage. The parallels of the dirk and khukuri never occurred to me, though. And now that they are pointed out, they seem obvious. I would even venture to say that there are parallels between the Gurkha and Highland regiments histories in relation to their entry into and distinguished service among the British military. I cannot help but think that any kami aware of this would proudly craft the signatory blade of comrades-in-arms.

I have some knowledge of highland blades, and while it is neither exhaustive nor exclusive, I will happily share it here.

Generally speaking,(I know there are exceptions, so please don't take issue) the traditional Scot's dirk was single-edged, thickly-spined and simply hilted (no guard or quillions). It tapered uniformly and varied in length considerably. It was used as a utility blade to dress game and gut fish, as tableware and as a back-up weapon diguised as tableware when manners dictated that the sword be left at home. In combat, it could be held in the targe(small shield) hand and used not as a "main-gauche" but to slash the opponents sword arm when parrying with the targe. The hilt was usually carved wood reminiscent in shape to the late bronze-age roman gladius. Decoration included carved celtic fretwork, and, if the owner had means, silver mountings, studs or a pommelstone. This stone was often a distictive, amber-colored quartz of the region called a "cairngorm". Occasionally the hilt would be of crown stag, but more often the accessory pieces (a fork and small knife) would be handled in antler tips if not carved wood to match the dirk itself.

So, a dirk shouldn't be too strange a territory for a kami to tread. The spirit of the knife is a familiar one. I would personally love to see their interpretation given just some basic guidelines.

Craig, I'm sure there are countless things we would like for you to accomplish in Nepal. Just remember not to do so much that you don't have fun doing it.

Have a great trip!

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Be Worthy
 
I don`t know how I missed this thread the first time around! Doh! I agree with the general concensus,I LOVE that first one! Craig,if you`re gonna make any put me down for one.
biggrin.gif
Marcus
 
Craig, I'm sure there are countless things we would like for you to accomplish in Nepal. Just remember not to do so much that you don't have fun doing it.

Have a great trip!
Click to expand...

I'll second that, MacHete!

Best wishes for your trip, Craig!

kai
 
Thanks, guys. Every time UPS comes, and there's another knife for me to take over, Marya rolls her eyes and gets another suitcase out!

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Wow! I've been lurking on this forum for a while - don't even have my 1st kukri yet (was bidding on two of Craigs on eBay - but went away over the weekend and lost out
frown.gif
), but I would definitely go for either/or or both the dirk and the sax!

Bob

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"The search is half the fun!"
 
So it's a go? Terrific!

I edited some of the above images because they were obsolete. This should be an easy project for the khukuri makers. I look forward to seeing them.
 
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