Guy Williams

[DPris]

Which sword did he carry as Zorro?
When I was 7 I wanted one, whatever it was.
Got a plastic version that year, but it didn't hold up too well.
Too late for the real thing?
Denis

 

[horseclover]

the Spanish 1907 cavalry peurto seguro are plentiful and turn up both in the old tv series and the 1940 Tyrone Power film. They are not what is shown as Guy Williams primary sword but I believe the props probably derived from them. At any rate, often found for sale at modest prices.

Cheers

GC

http://www.therionarms.com/sold/ttoy424.html

http://perso.wanadoo.es/jjperez222/tropacab3_e.htm

 

[DPris]

Thanks!
Denis

 

[Kohai999]

the Spanish 1907 cavalry peurto seguro are plentiful and turn up both in the old tv series and the 1940 Tyrone Power film. They are not what is shown as Guy Williams primary sword but I believe the props probably derived from them. At any rate, often found for sale at modest prices.

Cheers

GC

http://www.therionarms.com/sold/ttoy424.html

http://perso.wanadoo.es/jjperez222/tropacab3_e.htm

I didn't know any of that, but do like the pattern, and just picked up a project model to refinish from an auction site for $215.00 delivered.

Have no real interest in any historical significance, as I would like to cut with it, but will attempt to refinish and sharpen it with the greatest of respect for history and the blade itself, here is a photo of it:

Considering that a sharpened fantasy pirate cutlass from MR runs $167.00 before shipping, this seemed like a decent deal, even if it was a repro. What do you think Glen, I have drifted over into your purview, real/fake????? Decent deal, not????

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[horseclover]

Hi Steve, looks good to me.

Juan Perez wrote re the cross and eagle

The Santiago's Cross, and the Eagle of St. John were added to the Pto-Seguro swords in 1943, following new regulations issued by the new regime (therefore some people label this version as "M1943"). All of these crosses were painted red over the blackened (cavalry troopers') or plated (infantry NCO's) hilts, so that was in fact their original condition. Normally the paint is lost over the years, but some specimens retain a good deal of it.


I fully endorse use of period swords if in sound condition. A caveat needed though for readers is to not overestimate what any sword might accomplish.

There was discussion of an iaidoka that used to cut bamboo with a period Patton 1913 sword.I have been cutting with older swords but have not had to more than tune up the edges. I would much rather buy another old sword than buy another reproduction but have fallen off that wagon more than once. I am curious as to the comparison with a cutlass, as aside from the bowl, are very different swords but I understand the value comparison completely. There are still 1940s klewang cutlasses out there at less than $300 and many sound sabres/others at modest prices.

Cheers

GC

 

[Kohai999]

Hi Steve, looks good to me.

Great, thank you!

Juan Perez wrote re the cross and eagle

The Santiago's Cross, and the Eagle of St. John were added to the Pto-Seguro swords in 1943, following new regulations issued by the new regime (therefore some people label this version as "M1943"). All of these crosses were painted red over the blackened (cavalry troopers') or plated (infantry NCO's) hilts, so that was in fact their original condition. Normally the paint is lost over the years, but some specimens retain a good deal of it.

When they say "blackened" are they talking about paint or gun blue? Because lightly sanding, buffing and cold blueing OR painting is easily accomplished, but plating is a bit more difficult. I'm assuming from the screws that this is a trooper's version.

I fully endorse use of period swords if in sound condition. A caveat needed though for readers is to not overestimate what any sword might accomplish.

There was discussion of an iaidoka that used to cut bamboo with a period Patton 1913 sword.I have been cutting with older swords but have not had to more than tune up the edges. I would much rather buy another old sword than buy another reproduction but have fallen off that wagon more than once. I am curious as to the comparison with a cutlass, as aside from the bowl, are very different swords but I understand the value comparison completely. There are still 1940s klewang cutlasses out there at less than $300 and many sound sabres/others at modest prices.
Cheers

This is obviously more of a stab and slash sort of weapon, and a cool antique that I don't want to bust, so cutting will be pool noodles first and maybe an easy mat or two....NO bamboo. I have plenty of bamboo and swords that cut it. No reason to get silly here.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[DPris]

Neat project.
Denis

 

[horseclover]

I would defer to the gents ay SFI re the Spanish 1907. Juan is active over there and able to better clarify the blackening. I would think it parkerizing of some sort but with the mention of the painted cross, perhaps the later swords are just enamel paint.

I have cut mats with my dedicated old saber but those about the heaviest targets I generally try out with them. Modern medieval swords have had a go at heavy cardboard tubes but that was during an earlier phase of my enthusiasm. Pumpkins are forgiving but seasonal Pool noodles by the case are probably a good buy. I had some packing foam last year that was a little stiffer than the pool noodles but still cut like a breeze if the alignment was good.

Cheers

GC

 

[J W Bensinger]

Some of the lighter stuff when freestanding is quite a test of technique-dampened cardboard tubing (the stuff Aldo ships steel in) is pretty forgiving to blades but still not a cakewalk. I'd be very curious to see how that cuts when it's sharp.
This is the wu jian with the cut down hanwei tinker blade

 

[Noxious Fumes]

Here's a pic of Guy Williams as Zorro



....looks like a regular fencing saber, with a "pointier" tip. Nothing fancy but great for stage work.

Not my pic.

 

[DPris]

The official toy Zorro sword I had in 1959 had more of a fencing blade, with a piece of chalk in the tip (for making Zs on people).
Quite similar to the one in the photo in style, but all plastic.

My father took me to see Williams on tour, he did a stage fight with a touring partner & at 7 I thought it was pretty neat.
Denis

 

[Mecha]

You got to see THE Zorro?!? One of several shows/movies/cartoons that got me enthralled with swords at a young age. Never too late for the real thing.

 

[DPris]

He'll always be THE Zorro to me (although Tyrone Power comes a close second), I can still remember it.

He was in costume, did a little speech, talked to the audience, did a fencing demonstration.

I can still hear one line very clearly "Ha, watch out for your head, my friend!", as he took a (no doubt choreographed) swing at the other guy who dodged it.

Had chemistry with the audience, good show.

That was also the beginning of my interest in swords.
Denis

 

[Kohai999]

M1943 Puerto-Seguro sword arrived today.

The fittings are blued. It was relatively easy to take the sword apart completely, and it is indeed "real".

Have torn it down to the basics. Different types of steel MUST have been used in the construction, as the three types of Brownell's cold blue I have on hand have been used. Dicropan T-4 for the the guard, Oxpho Blue for the screws and some of the butt furniture, and 44/40 for the rest, including the scabbard.

The red cross on the guard is red enamel, which I filled and antiqued to look correct, rather than a bright and new looking red.

Will post photos when I get the blade sharp and pointy.....the deal was extremely fair, and I am very happy! Thanks GC for posting, and providing me with YET another sword I could not pass up, lol!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Mecha]

Looking forward to hearing about how it handles and cuts. I saw a HUGE German sword in an antique shop recently that was somewhat similar in look, but it was truly large and heavy, like the artillery of sabers. It had a curved blade.

 

[Kohai999]

For those who did not look at GC's link:

"The Puerto-Seguro 1907 pattern for cavalry troopers presents a full-cup hilt made in iron sheet, reinforced by an outer rim, the grip being formed by two handles of walnut wood hold by means of two screws to a wide tang, and the pommel hold by a screwed knob to the end of the tang in a similar fashion. It is therefore totally and easily detachable, this disposition being typical of this sword system.

The blade is straight, with ricasso, single-edged with a square butt until the last third, where it presents a narrow groove, and closer to the point a very short false-edge. This blade has deep fullers in almost all its length in both sides."

I missed the totally detachable part, myself. The spanner nut on the end is the "key" to breakdown, just like a mekugi pin on a katana.

IF that "key" was rusted, you are in a world of hurt. Luckily, mine turned fairly easily with chain ring pliers, and breakdown was accomplished(notice the lack of visible rust, as shown in the photos above):

The handle was in great shape, and everything was fitted with a fair amount of precision:

Here you can see the cleaned up guard, and the enamel filled cross. It's an interesting treatment:

Here is the maker's mark, underneath the leather it says Toledo:

The edge.....the primary bevel was very thick, and in order not to have to thin it down too obviously, I chose to take the edge to "slashing" sharp rather than "slicing" sharp. The temper is springy and frankly the construction of the blade absolutely does not lend itself to hacking the way a broadsword, basket hilt or even a katana would....the tip is simply too tapered and whippy.

Speaking of the tip, this sword now has a "running through" type tip.

Here are two final shots, coming and going:

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[DPris]

I am finding exactly none of these 1907 cavalry sabers for sale.
Anybody have a current source?
Denis

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Nice piece, STeven. Looks like that cleaned up really nicely, and I'll be very interested to hear how it cuts in your hands.

 

[Kohai999]

I am finding exactly none of these 1907 cavalry sabers for sale.
Anybody have a current source?
Denis

I got mine on the largest auction site on the web.....type in Puerto Seguro.

Nice piece, STeven. Looks like that cleaned up really nicely, and I'll be very interested to hear how it cuts in your hands.

Thanks....Gray Scotchbrite belts, buffing and about 3 hours on the guard alone.....and wasn't even trying to make it gun grade polished, just take out most of the major pitting.....worked though.

It will cut fine.....tried out some cardboard sheet today. As it has the fullers, it whistles just like a katana with bohi...IF your hasuji is on, anyway.

Slashes very cleanly, but I seriously doubt you could cut a limb off with it....let alone the head.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[DPris]

Just bought one for $275 off Ebay, looks fairly clean.
Now- who sells Zorro masks?
Denis