H-1 paradox

[MountainBilly]

Isn't it weird that every H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs but all the folders use a Delica or Endura handles and are almost all close copies of previous knives?

I've been lobbying for an original H-1 folder, hence this thread.

 

[tradestar]

With a wave pattern g10 handle, yep waves.

 

[Planterz]

Isn't it weird that every H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs but all the folders use a Delica or Endura handles and are almost all close copies of previous knives?

I've been lobbying for an original H-1 folder, hence this thread.

New molds are extremely expensive. Using existing molds saves them a bundle and consequently saves us a bundle.

 

[Fat Goat Forge]

Isn't it weird that every H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs but all the folders use a Delica or Endura handles and are almost all close copies of previous knives?

but i love my endura and delica.

 

[Spectre]

It hardly seems fair to call the Warrior an original design.

 

[yablanowitz]

I think what he meant was each was a new design as far as Spyderco's previous production went. The Rock Salt was based off Ed's competition cutter, and looking at the Jumpmaster and D'Allara Rescue raises a question on how original the fixed blade actually is, although it did require all new tooling to produce. H-1 is very expensive steel, so existing (i.e. already paid for) FRN molds were used on the folders to help bring the price down to where they would sell. People asking for an all-new tooling H-1 folder may suffer sticker shock when they see what it would have to sell for.

 

[thatotherguy]

I personally am just fine with the Delica and Endura 3 handles on the Salt folders.

 

[MountainBilly]

It hardly seems fair to call the Warrior an original design.

You're splitting hairs. It's hard to call virtually any new knife an original design; they are all variations of the millions of previous design with perhaps a new twist.

The point is that every H-1 Spyderco FB knife went through a significant design process whereas the folders are mainly re-engineered for different materials.

I understand the pros and cons of new versus recycled models, but how does the savings of reusing existing models apply only to folders and not to fixed blades? That observation, while true, is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Yablanowitz's observation that H-1 is expensive argues for folders, since they use so little H-1 compared to a fixed blade. The cost of a new H-1 folder is in the same range as other new folders.

Where is my new model sailor's folder with a Marlin spike? The new filet knife is a Catcherman in H-1; does every other application attract new designs except fishing?

So am I the only one that thinks it an odd coincidence that H-1 fixed blades are all new designs and H-1 folders are all old models, some with different blades.(I don't think the Tasman blade was done before)

 

[berserk87]

Isn't it weird that every H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs but all the folders use a Delica or Endura handles and are almost all close copies of previous knives?

I've been lobbying for an original H-1 folder, hence this thread.

In the case of the Rock Salt, the H-1 version was the original Spyderco issue. The Rock was the model that followed, and was in G-10.

 

[MountainBilly]

In the case of the Rock Salt, the H-1 version was the original Spyderco issue. The Rock was the model that followed, and was in G-10.

That's what I said: "H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs"

The Schempp Rock succeeded the Rock Salt due to the lower cost of VG-10.

So far no one has addressed the actual point I raised.

 

[yablanowitz]

The Tasman's blade is nearly identical to the Merlin. I'm not even sure if you have raised a point, but I will say the one feature all the H-1 fixed blades have shared is they were well outside my price range until they were discontinued and sold off at clearance prices. An all original folder in H-1 is very likely to share that feature.

If you are wondering why they have bothered to design new fixed blades but not new folders, it is most likely a lack of suitable past fixed blades.

 

[MountainBilly]

The Tasman's blade is nearly identical to the Merlin. I'm not even sure if you have raised a point, but I will say the one feature all the H-1 fixed blades have shared is they were well outside my price range until they were discontinued and sold off at clearance prices. An all original folder in H-1 is very likely to share that feature.

If you are wondering why they have bothered to design new fixed blades but not new folders, it is most likely a lack of suitable past fixed blades.

Oh yeah, the Merlin slipped my mind.

I guess I'm just struck by this an odd coincidence.

If it doesn't strike anyone else that way then I guess I'm special.

 

[Spectre]

?

You're splitting hairs. It's hard to call virtually any new knife an original design; they are all variations of the millions of previous design with perhaps a new twist.

Well, Spyderco says it's not an original design. But I guess they're splitting hairs. Hell, they're only the maker~ what do they know?

 

[MountainBilly]

?
Well, Spyderco says it's not an original design. But I guess they're splitting hairs. Hell, they're only the maker~ what do they know?

By splitting hairs I mean that you are fixating on a single word, "original" and completely ignoring the context. The subject of my first post was that Spyderco had put in significant design time to create H-1 fixed blades that were different from any previous design and completely new to Spyderco. H-1 folders on the other hand were all models that Spyderco had previously produced that were engineered for new metals. Spyderco always bends over backwards to give credit to other designers but the Warrior was the result of a very long and expensive design process at Spyderco to create a unique knife.

If that explanation doesn't make sense to you I guess we will just disagree on that point.

 

[berserk87]

That's what I said: "H-1 fixed blade (Aqua, Caspian, Rock Salts, Jumpmaster and Warrior have been original designs"

The Schempp Rock succeeded the Rock Salt due to the lower cost of VG-10.

So far no one has addressed the actual point I raised.

I guess that's because the point you are trying to make is not being understood by anyone. Your original post is ambigous.

What I read from your OP is that you are saying that all H-1 models are original designs, and then you say that they have simply piggybacked off of other knife platforms offered by Spyderco. How can you say that they are original designs, and then turn around and say that they are copies?

My point was that the Schempp Rock Salt was the original, and the Shempp Rock was the piggybacker.

 

[The Deacon]

I'd agree that the folders take advantage of existing handles and proven designs as both a cost saving device and to increase the chance they'd be accepted. As for the fixed blades, I haven't really checked, but it's possible the Aqua Salt used a slightly modified version of the Vagabond handle. The Caspians were a unique design aimed at a specific market where H-1 was obviously the best steel to use. Not sure if they'd have been attempted in any other steel. On the other hand, I'm sure the others mentioned would have been built using alternate steels if H-1 had not been considered the best available choice. When that decision proved incorrect with the Rock Salt, the handle got reused for the VG-10 Schempp Rock, so it has worked both ways.