H frame Forging press structure questions?

R

RonnieT

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Jul 21, 2017
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Have been thinking about making a H frame forging press of about 24 ton.
I have some issues I need to ask some experts about first.
I only want to make this once and I do believe in over kill so there is no regret.
I have a small shop where I do my blacksmithing in.
So I need to make as compact as possible but as powerful as I can with space and budget limitations.
I have some 6x6 H beam that the flanges are .450 thick and the web is about .315 thick.
I have some 3/4" thick grader blade that I could use to reinforce the outside web of the beams if need be?
I plan on making the base and top frame inserts with pieces of the 6x6 Beam, reinforced with the grader blade. the cylinder mounts and top die holder(s) would be made from what ever the cylinder tie rod slot opening would allow maybe like 1.250 wide. ( proposed cylinder would be 5x8 or 10")
Is this H beam be acceptable to make the frame with?
I need a small of footprint as possible
Also thinking of having the cylinder on the top and not the bottom, only draw back I see to this if it fails and sprays fluid down on the hot work?
Please anyone chime in on your ideas or flaws that are possible or that you have run up against I need help with this. I have read Dr. Batson book and studied it carefully.
thank you
Ron
 
With good solid welds and the reinforcement bracing you plan, I think that would work for a 24 ton press. Proper welds are really important.
 
Ronnie
Generally speaking the given yield strength for mild steel, is assumed to be 30KPSI. For a 24 ton press, you would need a safety factor of 5 as an absolute minimum with 10 being much better.
10 x 24 tons x 2000/ton = 480,000 lbs. 480,000÷30,000 = 16 square inches. this the cross section of the combined risers on both sides of the press. Your 6"x6" H beam is roughly 6"x.45x2, for both flats and 5"x.3" for a cross sectional area of 6.9"sq per riser, or 13.8"sq for both. this would give you an 8.6 safety factor. So it looks like the 6x6 will work fine for the risers. Assuming your welds are adequate and your cross members are strong enough you should be just fine. Add a 5hp 3600RPM motor, a 14gal per minute dual stage pump and a 5" dia. cylinder and you are on your way.
Hope this helps.
Jim
 
ABS Master smith Jim Batson has published a booklet called "Building your own hydraulic forging press". An excellect reference for anyone wanting to construct their own press.
Jim
 
Thank you Stacy and Jim, Yes the Batson book is what got me thinking about building one and the H frame showed to me that it had the better of the strength but more work and steel.
I see your formula for strength and along with the reinforcement I am hoping to make it work?
I visited with a retired offshore rig welder today and showed him my vision of the project & to ask advice of it all.
He told me the grader blades were of a tempered high carbon steel and would likely be best to use some 30 series hot roll flat instead to reduce busting them.
They are not actual grader blades as they are flat, 3/4"X about 5" wide, where a grader blade has a curvature to it, these are flat, He thinks they came from a bucket?
He also informed me that my stick welder was not adequate to weld the 3/4" or 1" plus plate that is needed for the reinforcements or dies and Gibbs.
Even with the edge beveling I intend to do on the plates. I use a Miller SD180 I bought new back in 2000. Mostly for tig work but the stick rod part of it is a great machine just not enough heat for this.
So we made a deal to have me frame and tack it up and he could provide the welds and fillets.
He suggested that I use my 8" H-beam to build it , but I was hoping to use the 6" to make it a bit more compact.
My 8" beam has the same flange and web thickness as my 6" does.
I run 2 25lb Little Giants for the past 20+ years but there is a need most time to try and eliminate hammer marks in the work and also save on abrasives and time which is all money in the end.
Please anyone with comments and pictures of your best ideas on the press or dies ,Gibbs motor/pump mounts, tanks valves gauges ,top or bottom cylinders please chime in, I only want to build this once and go to work with it.
Ron
 
Not sure where you are located, but around where I live, it's easy enough to rent a welder for a day or two that's big enough to weld steel that thick. When I get ready to build a electric hydraulic press, that's what I'll have to do. My small welder I wouldn't want to use to weld something required to hold 20-30 tons of pressure together.
 
Thanks pleasanthill, no rental here within 75 miles.
I would rather the retired welder weld it out, he is now a farmer , builds things like his own earth scraper to makes ponds and irrigation canals.
On the rigs he welded off shore he was routinely welding 3" plate and pipe for the oil industry.
He was employed here before that with the oil industry in west Texas where "overkill" steel thickness and welding were just what we did back in the days.
Not so much that way these days, oil field steel buildings built back then were so strong of steel and weld made it possible drive a truck across them now days a strong wind will carry them to the next county. I have check them out lately for structural steel to use, it is unGodly the use of steel they used, we see it as totally wasteful these days.
He showed me some off shore rig pictures of the plates they cut before welding with many oxygen bottles set up on a manifolds and how many torches were used to heat the cutting line before cutting , something we don't normally think about in a real world, where 1000 wall pipe is thought of as "thin wall",
If my press fails it would be something other than the welds.
Ron
 
RonnieT said:
Please anyone with comments and pictures of your best ideas on the press or dies ,Gibbs motor/pump mounts, tanks valves gauges ,top or bottom cylinders please chime in, I only want to build this once and go to work with it.
Ron
Click to expand...
Have you seen my video?
If so, I can delete this post.
It's a five year old video and I have upgrade a few things between then and now.
 
Thanks for the video, very carefully planned out press, well made. I do like the top mounted cylinder.
I wish I had that much room in my shop.
I am thinking about making the oil tank out of rectangle tubing and hide them in the rear part of the H-Beam webs. have them balance together with a tee fitting in the suction line, just to save more space.
Ron
 
Do I use a log splitter type valve with a spring return center?
What about a detent? with or with out one?
What about GPM on the valve and are there any better ports like NPT or something else?
Ron
 
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