H1 Steel and rust-proofing questions for steel experts

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misterjuiceman

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Sep 19, 2009
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I'm wondering if there's carbon analog to H1? that is, is there a steel with the same composition as H1 but with carbon instead of nitrogen?

also, would it be possible to take something like 20CV and replace the carbon with nitrogen and modify it slightly to make an acceptable steel? i know it can't be as easy as replacing the carbon, but i figured there must be some way to retain the properties of super-steel without carbon.

finally, does anyone know if there's a specific reason for using nitrogen instead of carbon? has anyone tried to make a steel with silicon instead of carbon?
 
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nitrogen by its nature is inert and does not promote or sustain any type of an reaction, hence its use in steels that are highly rust and corrosion resistant.
 
I know that some of the tougher steels have a high Silicon content, but in every case i have seen - 9260 for instance - the Silicon is in there in addition to the Carbon, rather than instead of Carbon. From what i have heard, the addition of Silicon (9260 is basically 5160 with added Silicon), helps assimilate some of the untransformed Austenite during heat treatment, and also increases the content of epsilon carbides which are smaller and harder, which is what you want in terms of carbide content to produce a more refined, tougher steel. I'm also intensely interested in experimentation anyone has done with using Silicon to increase steel toughness.
 
hara-kiri-yogi said:
I know that some of the tougher steels have a high Silicon content, but in every case i have seen - 9260 for instance - the Silicon is in there in addition to the Carbon, rather than instead of Carbon. From what i have heard, the addition of Silicon (9260 is basically 5160 with added Silicon), helps assimilate some of the untransformed Austenite during heat treatment, and also increases the content of epsilon carbides which are smaller and harder, which is what you want in terms of carbide content to produce a more refined, tougher steel. I'm also intensely interested in experimentation anyone has done with using Silicon to increase steel toughness.
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now i'm really curious about completely replacing carbon with silicon. i'm wondering if it might just have been too cost-prohibitive. if so though, you'd think some custom makers would try it out as an exotic steel, kind of like with nitinol.
 
If people can replace iron itself with cobalt, etc., as in stellite knives, then replacing carbon with silicon may not be far off.

Also, from what I've heard, H1 isn't completely devoid of carbon - having as much as 420J2 or something - but rather simply doesn't use it as a primary hardening agent.
 
Why would you want to removen carbon completely?

Carbon is kind of a... slut (sorry, I can't find a better word). It will get with almost anyone ;)

But, the carbides usually form at high temp. Also, many of the properties of some steels are because of those carbides.

Carbon doesn't rust. Iron does.
 
cybrok said:
Why would you want to removen carbon completely?

Carbon is kind of a... slut (sorry, I can't find a better word). It will get with almost anyone ;)

But, the carbides usually form at high temp. Also, many of the properties of some steels are because of those carbides.

Carbon doesn't rust. Iron does.
Click to expand...

I suppose carbon doesn't have to be completely elimated. I'm curious to see what would happen if the silicon content of say 20CV is replaced with carbon, and the carbon is replaced with silicon
 
You're forgetting a few things here .Carbon + iron gives you martensite ! That's the major strengthening mechanism. Another martensite reaction would be iron/nickel and there is a similar iron/manganese martensite [not hadfield steel].
Nitrogen has been used for a long time as a case hardening additive either alone or with carbon as in carbonitriding. Nitrogen has also been used for various ferrous and non-ferrous alloys to form a precipitate for hardening .
 
For silicon to replace carbon, it would have to fit into the steel the same way as carbon, which I think its too big to do.
 
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