Habaki on Kris Cutlery blades

H

Hoplophile

Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
435
Howdy all. I just got a Ninjato naked blade from Kris Cutlery. Well, it is slightly curved rather than dead on straight. This is a good thing in my book. I am seriously impressed with the blade. It is smooth, nicely polished (still needs some work but great for the money), and pretty uniform. These blades come with the Habaki installed. Aren't Habaki supposed to be peened to the blade on Japanese swords, or is it supposed to be removable for cleaning like the rest of the handle fittings?
I had higher hopes for the Habaki. It is loose, and doesn't quite fit the blade. It rattles a little. I guess it will tighten up when I put the handle on, seeing as the pressure from the paracord wrap I have on it now seems to have stopped the rattle. Anybody wanting a "real using sword" but can't afford one from a custom maker should give Kris Cutlery a try. :D
 
The habaki should be removable. As far as rattle, you could try covering it carefully with leather for protection and then "tweaking" it with a hammer, if it's very loose. If not, don't worry about it, the with the handle on and the seppa set up right there should be tension on it that will stop the rattle.
 
I have put several habaki's on KC blades. I use a large center punch and go around the inside edge (handle side) and stake it to the blade. You want a good fit but not a tight (have to struggle to get it off) fit.
 
isnt having the habaki loose negating one of the purposes of it?
i mean .. even with the seppa and handle pushing against the habaki and therefore making it hold ... wont it still allow the blade a little too much wobble for its protection??

just a query... because i have found that on the wakazashi i am finishing off now .. the habaki (for some reason) just seemed to be a bit too loose and i didnt want to press fit it with the seppa incase it wouldnt protect the blades edge .... but i also dont want to go through all the troubles of altering it if i dont have to .. ;)

D.
 
I'm not sure the Habaki is there to protect or support the blade. The originals were usually of very soft metal, like copper or a copper alloy. The tang itself is stronger by an order of magnitude than the habaki.

Other than acting as a transition piece between the blade and handle, the only big reason I see for it is to provide a wedge shaped area to fit into the saya for a tight fit when it is sheathed. As long as it's not really loose, it should be fine if it's nice and tightly snugged up with all the handle hardware present, and isn't so extremely loose as to provide a poor foundation.

Mine have just a touch of resistance to removal, so there is a slight interference fit but not much. (IE:... with bare blade and habaki, shaking the blade won't let it drop off, but an easy one hand tug will.) I'm not sure that is "right" but everything seems to work OK so far.
 
Too my knowledge, the habaki is just the locking mechanism for the blade in the saya. Oh, and a bit more pretty for the sword too.
Troy: how thick a piece of leather?
Should I use a lead powder filled mallett or my ball peen?
Do I need to do this while the brass is heated or is cold ok?
Can I do this against a piece of wood, or does there need to be some sort of "anvil-esque" piece behind it?
Thanks for the input guys. Keep em coming.
 
Use a thick enough piece to protect the finish... probably 6 Oz or so would do it. Put one piece of leather between the habaki and the anvil (preferable) or table (Will work)and another between the hammer and the habaki.


No need for heat, with the small amout your moving the metal. Brass is pretty easy to move around cold.

Remember your not "beating" on the thing, but rather tapping kind of hard. I would use the flat head side of the ball pien, and go more for the solid center portion of it. The little "ears" on the blade side are not very thick, and will bend easy. Also, you might want to get it close with the blade in, then fine tune with it out. Having the blade in will keep you from going too far. You might try the lead filled mallet too, I don't have one so it may well work better.

Peter's method will also work well. I think what he is describing is putting the habaki on the blade, securing the blade in a vice or similar (Again, protect with leather) and using a punch on the handle side of the habaki. Put the punch about 1/2 way on the back edge of the habaki, and hammer the punch lightly in at about a 45 degree angle. This will "push" some of the brass towards the blade and mushroom it, giving a tighter fit. Work a bunch of small ones all the way around rather than trying just 3 or 4 big punch spots.

Either method should work.

Good luck!
 
as i know it the habaki is meant to hold the blade within the saya and steady the blade enough that it does not move about in the saya enough to damage the cutting edge.

if there is movement of the habaki, then i have found that the blade will move too much to ensure the safety of the edge...

but it does not matter ... i think i have answered my own question .

cheers.

D.
 
Dementia, I look forward to seeing your Wakizashi. Boy, to the uninitiated that would sound bad wouldn't it. Is it going to be traditional or is it going to be one of your colored handled wonders?I misunderstood what you were talking about when you said "support the blade" I thought you meant while unsheathed. Yeah I see your point now. Looks like I've finally found a use for that cheapy chinese cast iron mini anvil Harbor Freight foisted upon me when I got my drill press.
 
Dementia, I missed what you meant by protecting the edge too. I think the confusion lies in interpertation of "Loose" and as to when it is loose.

I think it quite likely that the Habaki having any play in it when fully assembled would indeed be bad. I thought we were talking about unassembled play, and just enough to cause a rattle at that.

The seppa should be of size to push the habaki towads the ha-machi and mune-machi (Edge notch.. just became my japanese sword "New word of the day", hehe) and hold it under pressure, so it's the fit between the edge notch and the habaki that would seem most vital to me. not so much a bit of (Unassembled) latteral play in the body of the habaki.

I am working on a KC Waki also, we should all post pics and compare notes when done. I know there are definitly some problems I have had at various stages, and am not entirely happy with my solutions. I'm not so entirely certain my saya is carved so the blade isn't touching anywhere for example, I would love to see if someone else has a better and easier method than I do.
 
when i re-read what i had wrote initially .. .i was confused myself.
:D

but i made a makeshift saya for my wobbly wakazahi .. and found that even with a slight wobble in the habaki is allowed the cutting edge to come pretty close to the saya, it couldnt touch the saya.. but i am sure that over time with wear and tear .. it would have found a way to edge its way over to the wood. so 20 mins and a hammer later the habaki has no wobble in it anymore.

the wakazashi is going to be fairly traditional .. i have some same' on order that should be coming soon, as well as some of the nicest silk cord around.
& i am looking to make some mokume for the tsuba ..

i am looking to etch a ken onto the blade or some decoration and also gadroon the saya.. im taking my time with it so its not going to be finished anytime soon .. im only just now carving the wax in order to cast the menuki.. :)

when it is finished it is going to be hung at my dojo and be a sort of demonstration of what i can do. i have already sold a few tantos there, but i want to look at selling some tamashagiri blades for those that train in the iai & kendo dual. (cause we all like to whack at things)

D.
 
Cast Menuki? Too sweet! I still haven't decided what to do in that regard. I don't have away to do a casting (Although, the thought of casting epoxy or something into a plaster mold and covering with gold leaf occured to me... kind of like the old pitch-filled kind). I may just go with sheet brass to make something simple. There is a real one (Antique)I saw somewhere that was just a circle and a diamond shape linked together, it could be done from sheet stock.

I used brass for the fittings too, made a simple hoop to fit the tsuka (And the mouth of the saya) and brazed it together. (If you use brass to "braze" brass, is it then considered welding instead of brazing?) I then soldered the end caps on, and acid etched a pattern in. They turned out OK, I think. It's a start in any case.

If you haven't guessed from the description of making this stuff, mine is "quasi" traditional. Real Same' and silk Tsuka-Ito, fittings in brass instead of copper or iron and a steel tsuba with mosaic pin inlays. I haven't decided if the tsuba will be mirror polished or patinated yet, I am waiting to see what the overall look is once I get the Ito wrapped.

There is a guy selling Same' on Ebay for $15-$20, the cheapest I have found it. The white is not as pure white as I would like, but overall I would say the quality is good for the price. Of course, it's not top grade but at about %50 of the price it's workable.

Mokume would be sweet, but I think I will wait until I get a really good blade to go to that much effort. I would love to learn to make it though.
 
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