Had it with the Axis lock.

OwenM

OwenM

Joined
Oct 26, 2000
Messages
6,104
For the second time this year(edit: in the last year, not twice this month!), my 710HS has a broken Omega spring. I'd gotten rid of my other Axis lock knives since a custom was getting all the carry time, but went back to the 710HS for work.

The first time a spring broke, and the knife had to be sent back, I thought it was a fluke. Just one of those things. No big deal.
Now I'm sitting here looking at this knife that's become one of my favorites, my "go to folder", that's performed way beyond all my expectations, the one I recommend to anybody that will listen, and I'm thinking that I really don't want to own some piece of crap that I have pay shipping to send back every year just to keep it working.

It's going back one more time.
I like it too much to just toss it, and BMs customer service is always great, so it won't take long. Besides, I don't know what to buy that will replace it.

No more knives with locks that depend on springs for me, and this one probably won't survive what happens to it if another spring breaks.

Just when I was fixin' to buy a 942 to replace the blue 940 I sold awhile back, too...crap.
Not a real happy camper, here:(
 
Opposite spring from last time. I don't know if they replaced both springs when I sent it in last time, or not.
 
Are you doing baton work or similar with the knife, or just cutting with it? Do you flick it open a lot? You do occasionally get faulty parts however and someone has to be the unlucky one to get them. It would be nice if you could replace them yourself. Ideally you would do it every so often to prevent fatigue from becoming a problem.

-Cliff
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Are you doing baton work or similar with the knife, or just cutting with it? Do you flick it open a lot? You do occasionally get faulty parts however and someone has to be the unlucky one to get them. It would be nice if you could replace them yourself. Ideally you would do it every so often to prevent fatigue from becoming a problem.

-Cliff
Click to expand...
Cliff, it sees extremely heavy use, and has been used with a baton in the past (while seeing what it would take to hurt the boron carbide finish I had put on it). None of that should be stressing those springs, though.
Yes-it gets flicked open alot. It gets used frequently, and I play with it all the time. Now that I can see causing a problem over time, but one of my coworkers has a $4 Kershaw rip-off with assisted opening that is just as old, gets played with all the time, and works fine. I expect a little more from a Benchmade I paid $135 for.

I think Steven is probably right about both of the original springs probably being faulty-at least I hope so.

Definitely agree about user-replaceable parts. BM won't send you springs (though I've heard of them doing it for people overseas), and I understand it, but don't like it.
 
I just figure that the springs were likely made at almost the same time. There could have been a bad batch in there somewhere, and you knife ended up with two springs from one batch.

It isn't inconcieveable anyway...
 
Just got off the phone with Angie at Benchmade.
She said that they made a change early on with the "pocket" that the spring travels in, that my 710 could be an early one, and this could be a problem with the scales, not just the springs.
Either way, it will get checked out, get new springs, and new scales if necessary.
I mentioned not liking paying for shipping again, and am being reimbursed for it.
I may not like sending the knife in for a spring, but you'll never hear me complain about BM's incredible customer service!
 
I wonder how early that change was made...my 710 is an older one (old type clip and ATS34 steel)...is there any way for us to tell the difference?
 
It would sure be nice if BM would send springs!!! You can make springs yourself out of piano wire. ...if you wanna kiss the warranty goodbye.
I would like to see them ditch the wire springs in favor of some sorta wide single spring of wide, flat steel afixed to a spacer which was fastened through both liners.
Although I admit I still am a Axis fanatic, I do admit that there are improvements to be made.
Maybe Spyderco's new Ball Bearing lock will be the next great thing???!!
When those springs are workin, I still think there is no other lock, that combine all the qualities the Axis design provides in such a balanced way.
 
I'd also like to mention, I have seen people people totally discount BM axis locks a bunch of times in heavy outdoor/"survival" situations because the springs MAY break...First of all, I don't think a person should be carrying ANY folder in a REAL survival situation.
Secondly, the springs only make the lockbar work automatically, which is nice, but even if they werent there at all, the knife wouldn't be totally useless, just hold the bar in place with the thumb, its a very natural position anyways. I've heard the idea of holding a lockbar of a framelock tightly for security even with the knife in perfect working order, and don't see why this wouldn't apply to a Axis if you were in a total jam.
Just somethin to chew on..
 
Originally posted by Sticky
I'd also like to mention, I have seen people people totally discount BM axis locks a bunch of times in heavy outdoor/"survival" situations because the springs MAY break...First of all, I don't think a person should be carrying ANY folder in a REAL survival situation.
Click to expand...

Agreed. A fixed blade is much better for "survival" purposes. Any locking mechanism is prone to failure.
 
Roger that on the fixed blade for the really tough stuff. I've always said that a full tang fixed blade is the knife to have when things are going to get ugly.

As for folders, I prefer the frame lock ala Chris Reeve's Sebenza and BM's Pinnacle or the mission MPF. While it suffers from the sometimes finicky lock to tang engagement tolerances it does get gunked up with stuff like a liner lock, my least favorite lock.

The lockback is fine, but once again care must be taken to avoid getting "stuff" int he critical locking area voids and spaces.

This brings me to the axis lock. I have had a bunch of knives with the axis lock and have settled down to an 806 and a 710 (M2). The 710 is a great design and I bout that knife because of that, not because of the axis lock. I bought the 806 because I really liked my 800 but just do not like liner locks. With that said, both have been smooth and satisfactory in operation. I do not like the idea that your hand could unlock the knife in a combat situation on the AFCK. I think even Chris Carracci (whose ideas went into the development of the original AFCK) commented negatively on this aspect.

Finally, that brings me to the springs. They seem delicate and they live in hidden places, forbidden by the owner to ever pry, poke or even look into. These chambers, while off limits to the owner, are inviting to dirt, grime, blood, fat and all manner of field contaminents that love those little places that can render gear inoperative. Sure, break parts cleaner, a blast tube from a spray can and then some non-sticky lube will keep things running, but I do not carry those items with me in the field. Accordingly, my preference for the frame lock as the folder accompanying my ubiquitous fixed blade. The folders that I have taken with me on various ventures ;) have been the CR Sebenza, the Mission MPF and the BM Pinnacle and for the more civil yet nonetheless remote outings, the Chinook and, of course, the beloved Buck 110.

P.S. (While it is unfortunate to have heard of your difficulties with the springs, it is encouraging to hear about BM's Customer Service approach to your satisfaction.)
 
First of all, I don't think a person should be carrying ANY folder in a REAL survival situation.
Click to expand...

I don't think that most REAL survival situations are planned in advance, therefore the knife a person will likely to have on them is going to be their survival knife. Since most people can not legally carry a fixed blade, their survival knife will be a folder.


More important than equipment is knowledge and experience.

If I had my druthers, no one would be in a survival situation without a sat-phone, GPS locator and suitable female companionship.

Now granted, when engeged in high risk activities, i.e. deep woods camping or hunting trips, rural small plane flights, etc, people would be able to carry more appropriate equipment and should do so.


Owen,
I am suprised to hear about the second spring failure, but am happy Angie took care of you. I am sure that knife will be well tested upon its return.

Quick question:
IS the lock still functional with one of the springs broken?
 
Yeah, I can feel your pain. On my first 710 (ats-34, square skeletonizing of liners) I broke 4 springs in 1.5 years. I sat at my desk every day and opened and closed it for hours at a time. (It's a very soothing way to get through homework). I never sent it in until both were broken and can say with confidence that having 1 broken spring in no way hinders the function of the lock. It can still be flicked open, spine whacked, torqued, whatever else you can think of. It lasted for a little over 2 months on 1 spring the first time, and about 1 month the second time. So in a "survival" situation, even if 1 spring breaks, I would not have any worries about the lock being compromised.
 
works like a champ with 1 spring or 2 springs, works somewhat with no springs too. I took mine apart and tried that because I didnt believe it, but it's true.
 
is what's prevented me from getting the Griptilian. I don't like the idea of small parts that I can't get to without voiding the warranty. I went to a liner lock from a lockback because of how smooth they are but as I get older I find I'm leaning toward the lockback once again. They may give up some strength at the breaking point but in the long run I trust them more. The simpler something is the less there is to go wrong. I replaced my '97 Chevy with a '65 VW for the same reason. Now I don't need a computor to tell me what's wrong with my car. YMMV

Frank
 
It kind of makes me heartsick to read of a failure of an Axis lock because I finally have a knife I really like, a Benchmade 555 Mini Griptilian, and I don't want a reason -- even someone else's reason -- to distrust the strength and durability of the knife.

Does anyone know if the Pre-Production run of 555s had any problems like those mentioned by "Angie" to the original poster? I believe that like cars, most products should be avoided until a lot of people have served as guinea pigs with the first year of a new model. Does anyone know if the 555 had any modifications done to them between Pre-Production and general production? Should I substitute a specimen of later manufacture, for the purpose of better design? I hate the idea of using the thing and one day *bink* the spring goes. For this reason, I stock up on spare parts for things I can stock up on (like extra extractor for guns, etc.), so it's a buzzkill to find out that Benchmade won't sell backup omega springs for its Axis folders. That's LAME. Is there nowhere they can be obtained except for Benchmade?
 
Originally posted by Eric_Draven
Owen,
I am suprised to hear about the second spring failure, but am happy Angie took care of you. I am sure that knife will be well tested upon its return.
Click to expand...
Yeah, think I've told you about how great they've done me in the past, before. Sent me new torx screws for my old AFCK for free, and sent me a brand new mini-AFCK when I sent in one that was six years old (and had the crap beaten out of it) to have the lock checked out.

Quick question:
IS the lock still functional with one of the springs broken?
Click to expand...
Yes, the lock works fine. The only way you know the spring went is that suddenly the action gets super smooth, and it takes very little effort to open the blade (which is still held closed more securely than, for example, the ball detent on a liner lock). It would probably be ok indefinitely, but I won't carry it like that, personally. That's just asking for it, IMO.


I agree with everybody about that thinks this is the best lock out there when it's working. That last part bothers me though. I've started looking at knives as a long term thing, instead of keeping on just trying something new all the time, and eventually, those springs are going to break.
I don't want this to sound like a Axis bashing thread. It's really not. It's just that I'm no longer satisfied with the compromises that locking folders bring to the table when it comes to long term use, not to mention value, and the Axis happens to be the one that's in my face right now.
I want dependability and longevity, and could quickly turn this into a "why I'm only buying fixed blades, nowadays" thing.
It's not just locks. That's also what has me getting picky about different steels, looking for something that's wear resistant, tough, corrosion resistant, all that good stuff rolled into one. Something that can handle my kind of use for a looong time-if anybody wonders why I love INFI and S30V...there's why.

I think Bladeforums has made my standards rise to unreachable levels:p
 
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