Haft Questions

[tychoseven]

I have a CS Trail Hawk on the way, and I'm wondering about two things.

1. Has anybody tried fire hardening their hafts? I've done this with walking sticks and it makes them much tougher. However, in those cases the wood was always green-ish and I imagine the CS hafts are already dried and treated.

2. I'd like to use an epoxy or something to improve the junction between the haft and head. I've read about the sanding and filing I can do to improve contact between the two and I'm going to do that anyway. My concern with epoxy is having the haft break and not being able to separate the head from the broken haft. Is there a non-permanent option like RTV silicon caulk I can use instead of epoxy? Perhaps brother Vec has some insight.

Thanks,
Tycho

 

[omniviking]

Maybe you could drill a hole thru the the hea of the hawk and the handle and drive a roll pin through the hole to keep the head in place. If the handle dries out some it will shrink alittle and to tighten the fit up all you need to do is give the andle a few raps on the end of the handle sticking out of the head of the hawk, but I don't think this would work if the handle was glued or pinned in placed. Pat

 

[NO F-Bdy Bs]

The handles are pretty damn dry. Dont see what it could hurt. Give it a whirl and report back to us.

As to fixing the head. I have tried the roll pin setup, and more often than not, the rest of the handle will loosen up around the pin, and when the handle does break, it ALWAYS splits at the pin.


For an option, try what the rest of us have had good luck with. Heating the head, and using a deadblow hammer to seat it.

Here is an article I did on the Trail Hawks a few weeks back that describes the process for seating the head.

http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531185

http://bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=531187

 

[tychoseven]

The hawk should be arriving sometime this week, maybe by Wed. I won't get to working on it until the weekend, but I'll give the deadblow method a try. I'd really like to get the head as far up the haft as possible, within an inch of the top ideally. Seems to me that close work would be tricky with all that extra wood sticking out the top.

We'll see how things turn out. I'll probably be in for a lot of sanding.

 

[Bigfattyt]

My rifleman hawk has a set screw in head. you can simply mount the head very firmly by pounding it on, and tighten up the set screw if it has one. (although I never have it in because I throw the hawk so much, and if you leave it in and make a bad handle first impact it will split the handle). I have heard good results from silicone caulk, etc, but would avoid any epoxy or super glue just for the difficulty of getting a broken handle back out (especially in the field). At least with the open head you would eventually be able to drill and file out a glued head, but lots of work I think.

 

[CitizenQ]

...Has anybody tried fire hardening their hafts? I've done this with walking sticks and it makes them much tougher. However, in those cases the wood was always green-ish and I imagine the CS hafts are already dried and treated...

Yes. Read this, then look at this.

...My concern with epoxy is having the haft break and not being able to separate the head from the broken haft...

Epoxy is ill-advised imo, for the precise reason you have noted. Better to file the inside of the eye then do some serious sanding to make a perfect haft/eye fit.

YMMV.

 

[NO F-Bdy Bs]

The hawk should be arriving sometime this week, maybe by Wed. I won't get to working on it until the weekend, but I'll give the deadblow method a try. I'd really like to get the head as far up the haft as possible, within an inch of the top ideally. Seems to me that close work would be tricky with all that extra wood sticking out the top.

We'll see how things turn out. I'll probably be in for a lot of sanding.

If you are using the supplied handle from CS, the ammt of "meat" above the head is hit or miss. I have some that have 2in of wood exposed above the head, whereas, I also have a few that sit flush once I mount them.

Either way, unless the head goes REAL deep on to the head, where the wood is recessed inside the eye, I wouldnt worry about it. Even the ones I have with no visible wood above the head never come off.

Look at this top one. It sits flush with the head. I have beaten on it for a while now with no worried.

 

[tychoseven]

Sounds good, and thanks for the input. I'd definitely like to get the heads up on the haft like the two you have shown. I may pass on the silicon, but I'll wait and see how much work needs to go into making the head fit tightly.

As for the fire-hardening, I may wait and order some spare hafts to experiment with. Again this will depend a little on the condition of the haft I receive. I'll apply tung oil to the haft but I doubt I will use a poly coat or any other varnish type finishes.

 

[vector001]

brother tycho -

sorry to be late, it looks like you've gotten some good advice - i would just like to observe a few things that have been mentioned here.


(1) broken handle in the field.

i usually pack my hawk with a chisel, a folding saw, a long blade, and a short blade, plus my survival gear (firestarters, etc.)

if i was still using wooden handles for my personal hawks, and one broke in the field, i could chisel out the eye, or i could simply make a fire and burn it out neatly with a coal. - the same way you can make a spoon or a bowl, or a canoe, for that matter.

those are two field-expedient methods of clearing the eye of the hawk head, and there are many more, just with the gear at hand, and the noodles between our ears.

:thumbup:

(2) use of epoxy to bind the head.

if you are a careful type, i would say go for it.

if you are impatient and aggressive, stop here, is my friendly advice.


if you are feeling like Jeremiah Johnson, you can also make a fine resin, when you re-haft your hawk in the field, out of deer turds, ash, and pine pitch.

:barf:

(excusez moi.)



tools are great, but never let them make you a slave to their idiosynchrasies.

you know this already.


....just have fun out there, brother tycho'...!

vec

 

[Soilarch]

Newb question and possible suggestion.


Would the old soak-the-head-in-antifreeze thing would work?

I've tried it on other stuff, but it's not been long enough to tell any difference.

 

[tychoseven]

brother tycho -

(2) use of epoxy to bind the head.

if you are a careful type, i would say go for it.

if you are impatient and aggressive, stop here, is my friendly advice.


if you are feeling like Jeremiah Johnson, you can also make a fine resin, when you re-haft your hawk in the field, out of deer turds, ash, and pine pitch.

vec

The primary reason I considered epoxy was not to hold the head in place, although this is a beneficial side effect. I wanted to find a way to improve the contact between head and haft, so that energy would be smoothly transferred between them. I got this idea from glass-bedding rifles, where an epoxy mold prevents the receiver from violently slamming into the stock. In a hawk there may not be enough force involved to make this a problem. It was just something I though could be worthwhile, but getting that epoxied haft out of the head would be a real bear if the wood ever broke.

Guess I should just go with a composite haft, eh?

 

[vector001]

Newb question and possible suggestion.


Would the old soak-the-head-in-antifreeze thing would work?

I've tried it on other stuff, but it's not been long enough to tell any difference.

good question, brother! - i have zero idea.

smell and toxicity might be a concern, i reckon.

nibble-critters usually love antifreeze too ...i'd hate to find that out in the middle of Anza Borrego, after a violent Kangaroo Rat attack on my favorite hawk....



vec

 

[vector001]

The primary reason I considered epoxy was not to hold the head in place, although this is a beneficial side effect. I wanted to find a way to improve the contact between head and haft, so that energy would be smoothly transferred between them. I got this idea from glass-bedding rifles, where an epoxy mold prevents the receiver from violently slamming into the stock. In a hawk there may not be enough force involved to make this a problem. It was just something I though could be worthwhile, but getting that epoxied haft out of the head would be a real bear if the wood ever broke.

i think the forces on a rifle and a hawk eye have different natures, personally, brother.

close enough though, definitely.

.........

there is a hidden problem with making a stronger junction between a hawk head, and its (wooden/homogenous )haft: SHEAR.

how many of us have seen breaks in handles, right at the heads...?


if you make a huge strength difference between the head and the rest of the handle, you might cause a knife-like shockwave right where the head meets the rest of the neck of the handle.

bye-bye head. - even without torturous overstrikes on the handle.


don't feel bad in the slightest if ya didn't consider that:

young aerospace engineers make that mistake all the time - it usually takes a crusty technician to go upstairs and argue with them to set things straight before folks start burning out of the skies in "perfectly good air planes"...



the same thing can happen, to a lessor extent, when the length of a hawk eye is too small - too much pounds-per-square-foot, hitting a small surface area of the handle.

like when your girlfriend gets out the spiked heels and wants to step on yer ohnevermind, bad vector....

Guess I should just go with a composite haft, eh?

welp, ya know what i would do,



vec