HAIR POPPING SHARP (how do I re-apply it?)

J

Jameson

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
294
I have been practicing sharpening for over three years now. Since I got into this whole tactical-folder I have been faced with a dilemna. I buy a knife and use it for a while and it's hair shaving edge is gone. From there I can only regain a good edge.

I stress to call it good because I want good to be razor sharp. Mine do slice paper once or twice then they are still sharp but not hair splitting or thin slicing and "curling" of pieces of paper as they were direct from factory.

I have sent Bm's in for lifsharp and gotten them back sharper than anything. My M-2's have never dulled but have only cut my fingernails, shaved hair off my arm, and sliced paper as demo's.

I want to be able to restore my NEW microtech to it's factory edge. It has just lost it's ability to consistently cut paper smoothly and I want to remedy.

I have tried the following methods to no avail on my BM's and similar knives. They did retrieve a nice edge (all below) but they did not get the hair shaved.

Gatco Gatstix Fine and medium (small)
Gatco Tri-Angle Large clamp on
DMT 1200 grit GREEN Diafold
Handmade American Leather Strop one fine side one coarse for polishes. (www.HANDAMERICAN.com) with 600, 800 1200 grits and including 10,000 grit polish which following instructions I could not get the hair edge. I am in a dilemna.

Should I go to my local knife guy and risk him screwing up one of my prized BM or microtechs, or should I just waste more money and send them to the factories everytime I want blade sharpened. What about my AUTOS?? Can't send those around w/o ID.

Please help and I am sorry this took so long. Thank you all for the time.

JC

[This message has been edited by Jameson (edited 04-26-2000).]
 
Here's what you need to do:
1) Read the sharpening FAQ here on this site.

2) Check your local library for John Juranitch's book, "Razor's Edge Book of Sharpening." This is the bible of sharpening.

3) Look into getting a Spyderco sharpmaker for now. It is probably the cheapest way to get great results (great bang for the buck.)

4) If you want to know how to sharpen by hand without clampy things or Vee sticks, go buy a cheap, thin kitchen knife. Practice practice practice on this! Then you can go to your good knives, but be patient.M-2 and ATS-34 take a little more coaxing on a stone than the steel used in cheap cooking knives. Also, blade geometry makes a difference.

5) Do a search on sharpening and on specific sharpening devices on this site.

6) Be careful after doing steps 1-5 because you'll have bare arms!


------------------
"Come What May..."
 
Sharpmaker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Spyderco Sharpmaker 204!!!!!

------------------
AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
I am no sharpening expert, far from it. But I am a quick study, and after reviewing most of the material here on sharpening and some on various dealers/makers sites, the best way to get a truly razor sharp edge is by stropping after you have brought the blade to as fine of an edge as you can. I find that stropping INSTEAD of sharpening does the trick in many cases, as the knives are not truly in need of honing, only polishing.

smile.gif
Brandon




------------------
"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
 
Some thoughts about sharpening. You may have tried to do Too Much. An edge that is reasonably sharp can usually be brought back to life with just a few strokes on a green strop. It is rarely necessary to go back to rough grits to re-establish a primary bevel. If the primary bevel is in good shape, all you need is a medium (something like 1200) and fine (4000 grit) stone. And you will probably not need to use the medium stone very often.

For factory knives, a good edge can usually be improved and maintained by a few light stokes on a fine stone, followed by careful stropping. The angle of your grinding is very important. It is very easy to use a stone Too Much or to strop Too Much and round over the ultra-narrow edge you have created.

Do search the general forum for the words strop, and sharpening over the last threee months or so. Pick just ONE knife to practice sharpening. Think about what is happening along the edge at scales that are very hard to see, use progressively Less and Less pressure during sharpening or stropping strokes. Try to Feel the edge during sharpening strokes on the stone. Does it feel gritty? Or smooth? An edge nearing its optimal shape will make a certain Sound on the stone. It will also Feel right, like you are just about to start shaving the stone itself. You need to develop a very careful sense of observation and sensitivity for the process to work well. If you can get One edge to beyond razor sharpness, you can do more. It will take less and less time each time. Trying to do too much just doesn't work so well sometimes. Strop frequently! Avoid working on stones as much as possible.

Lastly, your diamond stone may be much too rough for the type of edge you seem to want to make. Try an ultrafine white ceramic before going to the green (10,000) polish on the strop.

Paracelsus, who had to work really hard to learn to sharpen things. You think knives are hard, try all sorts of curved edge wood carving gouges. Yikes!

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 04-26-2000).]
 
There is an answer...cheap round ceramic crock sticks. I have owned a Lansky, Sharpmaker, and every stone made and nothing brings back that hair popping razor sharp edge like a pair of round ceramic crock sticks. You can tell by the feel, when it "bites" into your skin. As you get close to being done, lighten up the pressure you put on them to "polish" the edge, no stropping required, in fact, unless you really know what you are doing, stropping will take the edge off. Opinions vary.
 
I gotta second the Sharpmaker. As well as what Crayola said. With M2, and Benchmade's ATS-34 and their grinds/bevels, it is going to take some patience to get the edges right. Not back, but right. Let me explain. The bevels on BM's are so thick that they just aren't shaaaarrrrpp even from the factory. Not as sharp as I like 'em. So, I take them to the Sharpmaker, my stones, whatever, and thin out the bevels. This takes FOREVER!! But, after that, the next sharpening job is a breeze, and they are back to "hair poppin'" sharp in a snap. But honestly, after doing all this work, you will find that the factory edge that arrives on your next BM just won't be sharp enough.
biggrin.gif
But it takes practice, and above all, patience!

------------------
iktomi
 
My advice is to put the particular sharpening device you're using on the back burner. If you want a razor sharp knife, you must have proper technique. I can get a razor sharp knife on any sharpening system, doesn't matter which. Technique is everything.

My advice is to spend a little time and $$$ learning how to sharpen properly. My advice is to read the Sharpening FAQ here on bladeforums, then go ahead and get Juranitch's book, *and* his video (contact Razor Edge). The video is nice because you actually get to see someone applying good technique.

Benchmades can be particularly hard to sharpen, due to their very hard steel and very thick edges. If you go buy any of the sharpening systems mentioned here -- especially the 204 -- and you don't have proper technique, you're bound to be disappointed. After you've done your research, post back here on which knife you're trying to sharpen, and we'll give you some tips.

BTW, my fave sharpening system these days is a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204 (not the 203!) coupled with a DMT x-coarse 6"x2" diamond hone. After you've done your research let us know, and I'll tell you how I use these together to get a killer edge.

Joe
 
My meager advice would be to get a Sharpmaker, and grab a few different styles of knives for practice blades. I went to a local auction and got about a dozen folders/fixed blades/in betweens and even a couple straight razors.

The equipment is secondary to good technique. And good technique can only be obtained by knowledge, practice, and patience.

BTW, I'm not trying to belittle the years of practice you already have. Just trying to insert something for others who may be reading this thread in an effort to establish some skill.
smile.gif
 
I hate to overload you with too much info, but after you get the technique down of sharpening, find out everything you can about steeling a knife. My AFCK goes a looooooong time without sharpening because I steel the blade daily. Any questions about steeling can be answered through a search on this site, posting a question, or e-mailing the all-knowing Joe Talmadge!

------------------
"Come What May..."
 
More good advice from Canada.

The steel is possibly the best way to maintain an edge. Very slight pressure and the correct angle (something you have to feel) are imperative. I agree that steeling maintenance truly reduces the need to sharpen from scratch. Plus, recurves and the likes are just as "easy" once you've got the trick.

RLR
 
Wow! Jameson, 34 posts since Oct.'98?
Nobody is ever going to call you a frivolous poster.

Oh well, one more time.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Spyderco SharpMaker 204
Easy, Fast and FUN!
Get one!

"Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot."


------------------
"Will work 4 Knives!"
Homepage: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126
 
Yeah 34 posts in almost two years is not much but I have been busy you know. I have been with this site since its inception, and wan't to congratulate all who have made it the mecca of online knife dealings and general knife discussion. Wonderful job all. Hey whatever happened to those Bladeforums T-Shirts?? Pls e-mail me on that matter.

As for sharpening...

I do own a few steels and when I was use my knives frequently (fishing in season usually stripers) I do steel all the time. I find big expensive (Wusthof trident, JA Henkels, e.t.c.) work well.

I will be buying a 204 sharpmaker and jsut delve deeper into improving my technique. I have done reading, though it was frivolous. i am going to INVEST both time and money know into becoming good at it. A step i somehow believed I could avoid with equipment.

One more thing, you guys are saying to charge my smooth hone with the green 10,000 grit polish and smooth out the already perfect edge (not hair popping) on my Microtech. The blade is brand new. It is 154cm steel.

Thanks again for the time.

JC
 
I do NOT think you were being advised to charge your smooth "hone" with green polish, maybe you meant your smooth strop (which has been suggested). I think your primary problem is thick-bladed knives with very hard steel. ATS-34, 154CM, and M2 are challenging to sharpen. They would be very challenging on a thick blade. I don't buy Benchmades for this reason. I select blade materials and contours to be easier sharpen.

I think a strop may actually cause you problems on a thick blade. You are forced to tip your blade up higher when you strop on a thick blade. It is easy to roll your blade up more and wear off your edge. Be sure that at the end of each stroke you flip the edge UP when you rotate to the other side. Do not flip the back side over at the end of the stroke. This is the safe way to strop.

I suggest that you use extra-fine ceramic rods as your primary means of finishing your edge. Stropping will often leave an edge that doesn't cut as well as the ceramic finished edge. Be sure to keep your ceramic rods clean. I like to finish with ceramic rods and then a strop without any polishing compound on it. This leaves a fine cutting edge.
 
Mr. Clark,

I did mean my leather strop. It is on a wood block that hinges open to reveal a rougher texture beneath. It is really nice, especially for the price that I got it for. At least this is in my opinion. Would I be better off with a "barbers" strop. What is the diff.? Mine was purchased from www.handamerican.com

Are the extra fine hones part of the spydee 204 sharpmaker? Are you saying I should primarily use 440-c and other easier to sharpen steels? Can you sugest any? Thinner ground knives like leapord from BM and such seem easier to sharpen. Any other pieces? Primarily smallish tactical folders pls.

I appreciate all of the information you guys have helped me with. That is why this place is such a success.

JC
 
I was in the same boat until I read Joe's sharpening FAQ. Now look out, buddy! I've got bare arms and legs to match my head. Using Joe's methods I can beat BMs factory edge hands down.

My .02 on the Sharpmaker is that if you don't know how to put an edge on in the first place, you don't want to use it. I practiced Joe's technique on a Lansky. Then, when I knew how to check for the burr, strop it off, etc., got good on the sharpmaker. The sharpmaker is quick to set up and does a good job on recurves and serrations but it doesn't cut very fast and it takes a steady hand.


------------------
David

Life is good in Hollywood, Maryland!
 
A strop on a solid support will generally work as well as a barber's strop (maybe better).

I don't rate 440C as easy to sharpen either (due to a somewhat course grain structure and a lot of chrome). I'm convinced that AUS-8 is a true razor steel, it easily takes an excellent shaving edge, but it dulls quicker than 440C. Several makers provide thin profiled AUS-8 blades. If you can't get a shaving edge with one of these you are way off base in your sharpening techique.

In the same vein, I've got a Junglee Marshall made from AUS-10 that takes a true razor edge and is tougher than AUS-8. This knife is built a lot lighter than a benchmade. A Spyderco Calypso out of VG10 would be another easy to sharpen knife/razor.
I think you can find some Cold Steel folders made from Carbon-V that would be easy to sharpen.

For practical (rather than shaving) purposes I favor BG42. It doesn't seem to shave as well as AUS-10 or 440V, but it really cuts well in real world use. I find it only moderately difficult to sharpen and it takes a fine edge and holds it. Buck makes semi custom versions of their model 110 with their new edge 2000 profile which would be a breeze to hone to a fine edge. You can select BG42 alloy blades with these knives.



[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 04-27-2000).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top