Hair Whittling - is it possible over 18 degrees?

[Motega]

Although relatively new with the TSPROF I have hand sharpened a long time and now with the TSPROF I can get mirror polished 10k edges but they aren't able to slice pieces off a single hair. I don't have any real need to do this, but I do think it would be neat to give myself a haircut by just whittling half off of every hair. j/k.
So what's the secret? I have diamond pastes and strops down to .25 micron and my best bud gave me a shell cordovan strop which is like glass. But my hair remains unwhittled.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Although relatively new with the TSPROF I have hand sharpened a long time and now with the TSPROF I can get mirror polished 10k edges but they aren't able to slice pieces off a single hair. I don't have any real need to do this, but I do think it would be neat to give myself a haircut by just whittling half off of every hair. j/k.
So what's the secret? I have diamond pastes and strops down to .25 micron and my best bud gave me a shell cordovan strop which is like glass. But my hair remains unwhittled.

You just need a keen enough apex to make shallow penetration without wedging the hair so much that it 'snaps' or penetrating too deep such that it 'pops'.
Random video (note mine) of s30V at 40' inclusive whittling hair:

 

[115Italian]

Try doing a microbevel. Raise your edge angle a few degrees. With a very fine stone use soft strokes. A few on each side and check the edge.

 

[wade7575]

When I sent that other stuff did I include a shell cordovan strop in there as well I forget now,I think I sent you Kangaroo Ash and MDF did I not.

Although relatively new with the TSPROF I have hand sharpened a long time and now with the TSPROF I can get mirror polished 10k edges but they aren't able to slice pieces off a single hair. I don't have any real need to do this, but I do think it would be neat to give myself a haircut by just whittling half off of every hair. j/k.
So what's the secret? I have diamond pastes and strops down to .25 micron and my best bud gave me a shell cordovan strop which is like glass. But my hair remains unwhittled.

 

[Motega]

Yes, thanks Wade.
I go slow and just not sure why I can get such fine edges but they don't "pop" or whittle hair. I'll try raising the last few strokes on 10k and 20k a degree or two and see if that does it.

I'm confused how a 40 degree (I assume that's inclusive) edge could whittle when my 18.5 taken to such careful, slow, deliberate mirror polished edges can't.

Out of curiosity, how long does a whittling edge last, maximum, with gentle but regular use like say prepping soft foods or something? I assume that whittling edge only last 1 slice, right?

 

[Ourorboros]

I'm confused how a 40 degree (I assume that's inclusive) edge could whittle when my 18.5 taken to such careful, slow, deliberate mirror polished edges can't.

You may not have removed enough material - because you are making your edge more acute, you have to wear down the bevel to the edge.
Try the Sharpie trick - mark up the edge area and see where you are removing steel. If the edge has ink remaining, you haven't been sharpening the edge.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Don't confuse polished with sharp.

 

[DeadboxHero]

You rounded your apex on the fine stone, you'll have to re crisp it on a coarser stone than try again on the Polish stone.

I recommend a loaded leather strop with 1 um diamond.

A hair whittling edge should last more than one cut unless you just have a weak foil edge or straightened out micro burr.

Yes, thanks Wade.
I go slow and just not sure why I can get such fine edges but they don't "pop" or whittle hair. I'll try raising the last few strokes on 10k and 20k a degree or two and see if that does it.

I'm confused how a 40 degree (I assume that's inclusive) edge could whittle when my 18.5 taken to such careful, slow, deliberate mirror polished edges can't.

Out of curiosity, how long does a whittling edge last, maximum, with gentle but regular use like say prepping soft foods or something? I assume that whittling edge only last 1 slice, right?

 

[Motega]

Thanks- I have very good increased concentration diamond pastes thanks to Wade's advice- from 1.0 down to .25 microns. Also a variety of stropping materials- balsa, ash, kangaroo, various leathers- and now that gorgeous piece of shell cordovan my buddy got me for Christmas.

I'm pretty sure that I am just being too conservative on angle- I am at around 18.5 each side and no micro bevel. Again, thanks to Wade and Yaxel, I also have become very consistent about zeroing out my angle cube and verifying the angle between stones. Wade is the only one that I have ever heard mention that the angle cubes need to be calibrated by inserting batteries as you hold down the power button. It's in the instructions, but as is usually the case on imported electronics, the owner's manual/guide is written in very poor English.

I am going to try my VG-10 Spyderco Emerson Delica 4, The Benchmade Valet in M390, and maybe a ZT in S35VN all at around 15 degrees per side with a .5 degree micro-bevel or two.

Just out of curiosity, wondering if you would create the microbevel after fully polishing to 20k and then stepping backwards to maybe 2000, or if you put the micro on toward the end of the initial sharpening. Common sense would suggest that once I get to around 2000 I lower the angle .5 from 2000-8000 or so and then another .5 from 8k-20k before diamond strop and final polish on totally untreated shell cordovan. The shell cordovan is like glass, I definitely don't think it is designed to be used with compounds, it is absurdly smooth.

 

[wade7575]

You don't need to re-calibrate it every time just if you think it's not reading right,I like the Wixey WR365 because it's the easiest to calibrate.

Also try doing what DeadboxHero said to do,and also watch you don't push to hard when stropping and more so with leather because it will compress and wrap around the end and round or just dull the apex.

 

[chiral.grolim]

A hair whittling edge should last more than one cut unless you just have a weak foil edge or straightened out micro burr.

well, that depends on what you are cutting

In all seriousness to the OP, edge-degradation will occur with use. I can use my cheap safety razor for shave after shave before the tug becomes unbearable, but the first shave is always the smoothest and there is likely edge-degradation occurring even in the midst of that shave. Folks strop their straight-razors between every shave to restore a keen apex from the degradation that occurred during the last shave. The longevity of your edge depends on its strength and geometry and how you use it. If your edge can still whittle hairs after a day's use... then maybe it deserves to be used harder

 

[Craig James]

Just as an aside, at what grit level would expect to be able to generate this sort of an edge?

this coming from a freehand sharpener who rarely goes above 800 JIS

 

[ErasmusWettstein]

In my opinion, making haircuts using additional methods is a very unreasonable way to go about it. All possible techniques are appropriate in cases of coloring or hair care. But for a regular haircut, normal scissors are enough. For hair care, it is really better to use modern technology because if you make a mistake, you can lose the density of your hair. Since it is an irreversible process, to restore the density, it may be necessary to https://www.novahairtransplantnyc.com/fue-hair-transplant-nyc/ . I know people who have had hair transplants. After they have regained density, they must continue to take good care of their hair.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

When you initially set your primary bevel did you raise a burr across the entire edge and then work the other side? The burr doesn't need to be big and actually the smaller the better because you're removing the least material, but it let's you know that both sides have met in a sharp apex.

There is a chance you got both sides really close to the apex but not quite if you didn't raise a burr. But more likely I suspect it's a technique with your whittling of hair or that you have slightly rounded the apex while refining your mirror polished edge. Out of curiosity, how does it cut paper? I would think a 10k edge would even cut toilet paper fairly cleanly.

I just touched up a new Benchmade that came pretty dull and is probably closer to 45-50 degrees inclusive. I used the white (fine) Sharpmaker rods and a few passes on a wood backed leather strop loaded with 1 micron diamond, and it's hair whittling sharp now. And now I have strange bald patches on my arms which seems to happen after breaking out the sharpening equipment, though that's probably a normal affliction in this forum.

I'm also jealous of your TSPROF sharpener! I tried to buy one when the maker was first starting to sell them in the US before any kind of distributor was here but had a lot going on with health problems and it just never happened. Last time I looked they were about double the price which I can't afford, though I would love to have one! It would be cool to have just to admire the design and machining.

I'm sure you will get it figured out with a little more practice. Might want to grab a couple dull kitchen knives from the drawer and practice on them with their softer steel. Show some pics of your edges if you get a chance!

 

[Blade Lab]

If you're using a decent cutting board, the act of cutting can actually make a sharp knife even sharper for a while. I would guess it's because you're polishing the edge bevel and eliminating every last bit of burr. I confirmed this earlier today. I sharpened an AUS10 blade to 65 BESS and later used the knife to cut three boneless chicken thighs into cubes (dog treats). Out of curiosity, I retested it afterwards and it came in at 50 BESS.

 

[MrStabby7]

If you're using a decent cutting board, the act of cutting can actually make a sharp knife even sharper for a while. I would guess it's because you're polishing the edge bevel and eliminating every last bit of burr. I confirmed this earlier today. I sharpened an AUS10 blade to 65 BESS and later used the knife to cut three boneless chicken thighs into cubes (dog treats). Out of curiosity, I retested it afterwards and it came in at 50 BESS.

I've heard of some guys using wood to remove the burr after sharpening, never done it myself though. 50 Bess is excellent! I know some of my knives are sub 100 but i'd be suprised if i've ever gotten one to 50.

 

[Blade Lab]

I've heard of some guys using wood to remove the burr after sharpening, never done it myself though. 50 Bess is excellent! I know some of my knives are sub 100 but i'd be suprised if i've ever gotten one to 50.

I was actually shocked that it tested at 50 after cutting. That's my personal best score, although I can consistently get in the 60-75 range. For me, improvement has come with repetition/experience. I don't feel like I'm doing anything different, but the BESS scores keep coming down over time. A couple years ago I was happy if I could crack double digits. I guess mom was right: practice, practice, practice.

 

[MrStabby7]

I was actually shocked that it tested at 50 after cutting. That's my personal best score, although I can consistently get in the 60-75 range. For me, improvement has come with repetition/experience. I don't feel like I'm doing anything different, but the BESS scores keep coming down over time. A couple years ago I was happy if I could crack double digits. I guess mom was right: practice, practice, practice.

I really need to get an actual BESS scale. I just have the PDF file of various tests which indicate your blade is at a certian level of sharpness. It's still fun to try to get those scary results even without the scale. I can get hair whittling pretty consistently ( dragging the hair tip to root across the blade) but have no idea how people make it to tree topping.

 

[lonestar1979]

Its easy...make clean apex on edge from both sides...thats all