Hair Whittling Sharp

[MrStabby7]

Alright, so I'm pretty new to knife sharpening. I can get a pocket knife sharp enough to shave in either direction (not as good as a true razor but pretty close) I can slice phone book paper no problem but I would like to get to that next level of sharpness. Hair whittling sharp! I know there isn't any reason to do this other than bragging rights but I still want to. All I do now is use 1000 grit wet stone and a strop with this random green stropping compound I found online. I was also wondering if anyone out there could tell me more about this compound. Most companies seem to list a micron level with there compounds. The manufacturer of this stuff doesn't give much info which makes me feel like I'm flying blind. The link to the compound is below.

Woodstock D2902 1 lb Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green - Polishing Pads And Bonnets - Amazon.com

Woodstock D2902 1 lb Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green - Polishing Pads And Bonnets - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[Sharp Steel]

I am curious how the compounds compare to the Ryobi Metal Cleaning compounds they sell at the home center. The pack comes with black, yellow, and white compound, and the white is referred to as a rouge. Is that the same stuff?

 

[MrStabby7]

I am curious how the compounds compare to the Ryobi Metal Cleaning compounds they sell at the home center. The pack comes with black, yellow, and white compound, and the white is referred to as a rouge. Is that the same stuff?

Not sure. Its listed as extra fine but who knows

 

[gadgetgeek]

"Green" is usually chromium oxide. It can vary in coarseness depending on who makes it, and different formulations will have different ratios of sizes. Compounds are generally categorized by particle size. In its "pure" state, chromium oxide (also called crox or cro-ox sometimes) is about 0.5 micron (I might be wrong someone can correct me) although there are formulations that can have larger grains as well, as these will cut faster. I have one that is a range of 0.5-3 micron mix (Veritas, available from lee valley), not considered suitable for straightrazors, but is designed for woodworking tools, and does very well on most knife steels.
Green is a good general purpose compound.

Rouge is used as a general term often, though I think technically a rouge should also have some wax to fill the microscopic scratches and act as more of a polish. but I could be wrong on that. All of these compounds are available in various formulations, pure powders, bars and oils, though not all are common.
In general they are kinda standardized, in so far as the base abrasive will have a certain crystal size, its just a matter of purity and binder. Its a matter of finding what seems to work best for your method. Some will work really well, but need so many passes that they really only work well on a power wheel, and in that case you can start getting concerns about heat as well as final edge geometry.

One point of note is that chromium oxide is not totally inert from a health standpoint, nor are any of the other compounds. Something to keep in mind for home use, and if you are buying random brand compound, does it contain exactly what it says? There are some old methods of polishing that are no longer used, not because we "lost the technology" but because the compounds are immensely toxic over long term use.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

(1) A combination of small particle size in green compound (commonly stated at around 0.5 - 1 micron), and (2) relative subtlety or finesse as a cutter of steel, are the attributes that can make green compound (chromium oxide) work very well for shaving/hair-whittling edges, on certain simpler types of steel.

For simpler steels not having much hard carbide content, like simple carbon steels (1095, CV, etc.) and low-alloy stainless (420HC and equivalents), green is effective enough and yet still subtle enough to refine & polish the edge without being too aggressive. Green is popular among woodworkers because most of those tools (chisels, plane irons, gouges, carving tools, etc.) are usually made from simpler carbon steels not having a lot of hard carbide content.

Green will struggle more with more wear-resistant steels' hard carbides, as both chromium carbide and vanadium carbide are somewhat (or a lot) harder than the chromium oxide grit in green compound. For more wear-resistant steels containing much chromium carbide, like 440-series steels, VG-10, 154CM and many others, an aluminum oxide compound, like a white rouge, will work better than green. And any steel with much vanadium content (3%-4% vanadium or more) will want for diamond or cbn compounds, to handle the carbides in those steels.

 

[S-3 ranch]

So white is better for vg10 , I have some white formax and black formax , then a strop with green?
I guess my S35vn is diamond on wood ? Or will the chromium oxide work?

 

[garry3]

One of the biggest factors in splitting hair is the hair itself. It’s just not all created equal.

 

[wade7575]

MrStabby7 What steel's do you currently own,the reason I ask is because most PM steels do better if you strop them with diamond emulsion,I would suggest taking a look at Gunny Juice sold at gritomatic Gunny Juice cuts faster for sure then anything else I have tried.

For known PM steels I know a lot of guys use Dialux I haven't used it but I have never heard anyone complain about it at all.

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/gunny-juice-poly-diamond-emulsion?_pos=1&_sid=4a5d9f459&_ss=r

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/dialux-sharpening-compound?_pos=1&_sid=4770755d4&_ss=r

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

So white is better for vg10 , I have some white formax and black formax , then a strop with green?
I guess my S35vn is diamond on wood ? Or will the chromium oxide work?

For the VG-10, I'd just stay with the white and skip the green. Or at the very least, any stropping done with the green should be kept to a minimum. Compounds that struggle with carbides tend to erode the matrix steel around the carbides at the edge, while not doing much with the carbides themselves. So the chromium carbides in VG-10 remain less refined, i.e., rounder, thicker, blunter at the apex and the edge will never be as sharp as it can be.

Same advice for S35VN - even more so, in fact, because green compound is no match in hardness for the vanadium carbides, being essentially half as hard as the carbides themselves. Use the diamond for the sake of the vanadium carbides in that steel, and don't bother with any other compound following it.

For both steels, you could also just use the diamond compound for each of them. The point being, diamond will refine the carbides easily in either steel. But for VG-10, white works very well in it's own right, especially if used on something like hard-backed denim or linen. That's my personal favorite for VG-10.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I am curious how the compounds compare to the Ryobi Metal Cleaning compounds they sell at the home center. The pack comes with black, yellow, and white compound, and the white is referred to as a rouge. Is that the same stuff?

The white Ryobi compound is actually a favorite of mine. That's what I've been using the most, in referring to the 'white rouge' compounds.

The yellow is maybe a little coarser than the white - I haven't used it much. But it should still be pretty good. I've also used a grey compound (aluminum oxide) from Sears that's a bit coarser than white rouge. But I've also liked it, used on hard-backed denim.

I've never had a lot of use for black compounds in general. They're very aggressive metal removers, used for 'cleaning' very coarsely-finished metals, such as from heated pieces left with a lot of scale on them. But for refinement of a knife edge on a strop, I favor something less aggressive. Any very heavy metal removal, for the sake of a knife's edge, is better done on stones.

 

[MrStabby7]

I'm currently trying to sharpen two knives. One is S35vn and the other is D2 steel. Thanks for sharing those links wade7575. Some people online were saying that the green brick of stropping compound I have is about 6000 grit. No idea if that is true or not.

 

[wade7575]

I'm currently trying to sharpen two knives. One is S35vn and the other is D2 steel. Thanks for sharing those links wade7575. Some people online were saying that the green brick of stropping compound I have is about 6000 grit. No idea if that is true or not.

Using normal compound should do fine those steel's it's when you start getting up to S90V and above I would start to use diamond's.

When stropping you want to watch that you don't go crazy and over strop as you can round the apex if your not careful and from what I have seen with Gunny juice you can really over strop your edge if your new sharpening.

Gunny Juice is the only product that use's deionized diamonds and the reason that is because any particle at 1 micron tends to to want to clump together which in turn basically makes a bigger diamond,I forget the name of the phenomenon that cause's particles to attract to each other I read about it online and I asked a friend of mine who's a scientist and he told me what it was called.

 

[cudgee]

The yellow is maybe a little coarser than the white - I haven't used it much. But it should still be pretty good.

I have been using Flexcut Gold for ages, it works on most steels, i don't have any really hard steel blades, but it will clean up any remaining burr, it is a bit more aggressive but if i had to just use just one compound it would be this. Have a good week.

 

[MrStabby7]

Using normal compound should do fine those steel's it's when you start getting up to S90V and above I would start to use diamond's.

When stropping you want to watch that you don't go crazy and over strop as you can round the apex if your not careful and from what I have seen with Gunny juice you can really over strop your edge if your new sharpening.

Gunny Juice is the only product that use's deionized diamonds and the reason that is because any particle at 1 micron tends to to want to clump together which in turn basically makes a bigger diamond,I forget the name of the phenomenon that cause's particles to attract to each other I read about it online and I asked a friend of mine who's a scientist and he told me what it was called.

That sounds like good stuff. Ill probably end up getting some. I've learned the lesson of over stropping before. It isnt fun and usually causes me just to start over. Low pressure, like just the weight of the blade, seems to work best on the strop for me.

 

[wade7575]

That sounds like good stuff. Ill probably end up getting some. I've learned the lesson of over stropping before. It isnt fun and usually causes me just to start over. Low pressure, like just the weight of the blade, seems to work best on the strop for me.

Do you freehand sharpen or do you use a guided system,you can find Basswood at a good price at HobbyLobby and I really it,Basswood is more durable then balsa and I just sand mine to 1 or 2K with auto sand paper and then apply the Gunny Juice.

You can also use leather with Gunny Juice and Nancloth,at HobbyLobby they also sell 1/8x1x24 Basswood dirt cheap and is perfect for guided systems,if your looking for the 1/8x1 you have to look threw all the listings and check each drop down menu.
They also sell wider stuff for that would work for freehand.

 

[MrStabby7]

I just freehand sharpen. I just purchased a 10ml of gunny juice I got 1 micron not sure if that's going to be too fine or not. Is Basswood the same thing is balsa wood?

 

[wade7575]

No basswood is a bit harder but by no means like maple or ash and woods like that,I have seen a lot of other guys here say they use basswood as well.

I can't post a link to it but if you email me at wadenorton2007@yahoo.ca and title it basswood I can send you a link.

 

[MrStabby7]

Well, Ive used the 1 micron gunny juice strop on a couple different knives and i cant get them any sharper than I previously could. I wonder if i'm doing something wrong. Im using the origional angle my knives came with. Im starting to wonder if you can only get knives so sharp at certain angles. Thoughts?

 

[MrStabby7]

So after hours of messing with my knives I have finally achieved hair whittling results. This is much easier to do now that I know what I'm doing and I was able to repeat the results on a different knife with different steel. the first knife I did this on was a civivi Elementum with D2 steel. I'm no steel expert but from what I understand this can be a rather difficult steel to sharpen. The second knife I got hair whittling results with was my Southern Grind Spider Monkey. This knife has S35vn Steel. The only thing I used to get hair whittling sharp was a 1000/6000 stone from amazon and some green strop compound I put on balsa wood that I sanded with 600 grit sand paper. Ill put the links down below incase anyone wonders what I used. Hair whittling results can be achieved on a budget and if I can do it anyone can.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT1X9O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Woodstock D2902 1 lb Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green - Polishing Pads And Bonnets - Amazon.com

Woodstock D2902 1 lb Extra Fine Buffing Compound, Green - Polishing Pads And Bonnets - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

 

[kreisler]

my hair is way too short for whittling tests (andre agassi style).

and pubic hair ... impossible to whittle.
has anyone tried? photo proof please.