Hammer Forged Blades

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pogo

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Jun 8, 2005
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Is a hammer forged blade better or just hype? I think if it produced a superior blade then just about every major company would use this method.A few top doller knife makers use stock removal & rely on superior heat treat methods. What is everyones take on this?:confused:
 
In the 'old days' it was an advantage but with modern steels and steel making it makes no difference .
 
My experience with hammer forged blades has been very positive. Khukuris & bolos. Forged out of old truck springs by guys sitting on the floor and tempered with an old tea kettle. Could this be done better by modern means? Probably. Could it be done without raising the price tenfold? I doubt it. Will an S30V Strider outchop my 5160 bolo from RoA? I wouldn't bet on it. The only modern knife, made by modern means, that I think could chop alongside one of my HI khuks is probably a big Busse or a Bark River golok (if you could find one).

Frank
 
I can only say that my German Eye (Carl Schlieper) hammer-forged pocket knives work very well. Better than modern steels? I don't know. But it's good enough, for sure!
 
Like mete said, there is no difference. Of course, he's a retired metallurgist, so I'm not going to argue. :) Only thing you'll do with a hammer against a modern steel is risk cracking it if you forge too cold, AFAIK.
 
SilverFoxKnows said:
Could this be done better by modern means? Probably. Could it be done without raising the price tenfold? I doubt it.
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Hit the nail right on the head here I think. Forging shapes the grain of the steel more in keeping with the final form of the blade and tang, not the case with stock removal. Assuming the steel and heat treat are otherwise identical, the forged blade should be tougher. But, it would be an extra step in the manufacturing process, which means more money goes to paying the makers, and prices go up, potentially leading to less volume in knife sales.

This isn't to say that forging is necessary for all types of blade... heck, your average machete has to hold up to chopping all manner of material. Your smaller, mass-produced blades aren't likely to see a lot of strain that would benefit from forging over stock removal either.

Edit: My info might be a little out of date. :D
 
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the biggest advantage of forged is the use of dirrerential zones of blade hardness, a hard edge & softter top or back of blade gives great cutting with strength of more flexible top of blade.stock removal blade with similar hardness zones basically basically makes them =
 
DennisStrickland said:
the biggest advantage of forged is the use of dirrerential zones of blade hardness, a hard edge & softter top or back of blade gives great cutting with strength of more flexible top of blade.stock removal blade with similar hardness zones basically basically makes them =
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That has nothing to do with "forging" , thats the heat treating process
 
You don't think edge packing during the forging process has a significant on the ability of an edge to hold a sharper edge longer.

All things bein' the same, (which is really impossible when comparing stock removal to forging) don't you think that almost any knife would benefit from at least packin' the edge and compacting the matrix and alignin' the molecules through the hammerin' process?

I believe forgin' can only make a great knife better.
 
T. Erdelyi said:
You don't think edge packing during the forging process has a significant on the ability of an edge to hold a sharper edge longer.
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No, because edge packing does not exist. The improvement seen is from subsequently lower forging temps as the forger uses lighter hammer blows for working the edge. It is the thermal cycling, you can't 'pack' the edge.
 
hardheart said:
No, because edge packing does not exist. The improvement seen is from subsequently lower forging temps as the forger uses lighter hammer blows for working the edge. It is the thermal cycling, you can't 'pack' the edge.
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Than why is a forged crank stronger than a machined one and I thought the same concept applied where by the molocules align by process of hammerin' the hot steel and coolin' it, isn't that forgin'?

Help me understand, if I'm wrong I'd like to correct myself, I mean isn't one of the reasons we come here to learn?:)
 
forging used to be the only way to create knives and swords, b/c of a lack of belt grinders and decent files, it also helped to reduce the grain size of the steel. However with todays modern steel especialy CPM steel, the carbides and grains are so small you can not improve it by forging, where as it is possible to harm it. the only credible advantage I've heard of regards the tang. if you forge the tang, then it will likely be rounded, and you will deform the grain around it, as opposed to stock removal where the tang is sometimes cut at 90 degree angles which are susceptible to fracture under stress. this is what you are talking about Erdelyi, the deformation of thr grain increases strength
 
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packing the edge is impossible,you ca'nt compress steel.[packing] might if done correctly help relieve stress at the edge.i,m sure we have forum makers which do both;stock re. & forging.maybe they will add info to this post
 
I think it's important to note that one of the benefits of forging (the flow of the grain structure) is also present in most modern stock steel bars, as they are rolled under tons of pressure to take the cast (or HIP'd) bars and shape them to the desired width and thickness.
 
Joshua J. said:
I think it's important to note that one of the benefits of forging (the flow of the grain structure) is also present in most modern stock steel bars, as they are rolled under tons of pressure to take the cast (or HIP'd) bars and shape them to the desired width and thickness.
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LOL...I like to call it "pre-forged":D
 
T. Erdelyi said:
Than why is a forged crank stronger than a machined one and I thought the same concept applied where by the molocules align by process of hammerin' the hot steel and coolin' it, isn't that forgin'?

Help me understand, if I'm wrong I'd like to correct myself, I mean isn't one of the reasons we come here to learn?:)
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I found it!
Thank you Kevin Cashen.

This should contain all the information you will ever want to know about forging, and then some.
http://www.cashenblades.com/articles/lowdown.html
 
This paragraph answer what was going to be my next question:

Kevin Caseh said:
My research has shown me that forging does make superior steel… from the cast ingot! Steel in ingot or billet, directly from the pouring process, requires heavy reduction and deformation in order to improve its properties by the working out of undesirable conditions, as in redistribution of brittle segregated constituents, closing up porosity and scattering any undesirable inclusions. Because of this, all traditionally poured steels undergo heavy rolling and other mill operations very soon after their creation. It is funny that if one looks at it like this, even stock removers use forged steel. Compared to these massive reduction operations, our meager hammering is little more than mostly repeated heat treating and, if one approaches it from the standpoint that if we use the recommended forging temperatures, then it truly does all come down to the heat treat.
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So, if your steel isn't pre-forged or otherwise refined, forging's the way to go, but if you've got a billet of modern steel, it's unnecessary. Thanks for the link! :thumbup:
 
SilverFoxKnows said:
My experience with hammer forged blades has been very positive. Khukuris & bolos. Forged out of old truck springs by guys sitting on the floor and tempered with an old tea kettle. Could this be done better by modern means? Probably. Could it be done without raising the price tenfold? I doubt it. Will an S30V Strider outchop my 5160 bolo from RoA? I wouldn't bet on it.
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My thoughts exactly! :thumbup:
IMHO.... Blade companies are just that: COMPANIES. They are in business (just like everyone else) to turn a profit at the end of each quarter. Blade forging to shape is a VERY labor & time intensive process.
There's a simple reason traditionally forged ethno knives like Khukuris, Bolos, Parangs, and the like aren't made here in the US. No one would make any money!
I own a few Factory blades and they cut great. Now, would I trade any of my ethnos for one? To quote SFK, "I wouldn't bet on it"!
After all..... Have you ever seen a broken Khukuri? I haven't! :D
 
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