hammon question

B

bartblade

Joined
Nov 4, 2002
Messages
344
last night i heat treated a big kamp knife. it was profiled to be like a katana and so i was useing high temp fire place cement to get a hammon. quenched is 105 dagree water/ bacon greese quench and after cleaning it up a little i find a crack all the way though where 1 of the ashy lines was and the crack made a Y up into the hammon area.

blade steel 5160 left 100thou thick at edge
charcoal forge; non magnetic temp checked and heated a little more had a nice even temp and quenched.

using the katana dvd from palidenpress as a guide

just wondering if anyone could figure what went wrong

thing that really gets me is i did a kitchen style blade lastnight too it is ats34
i did the same way cement and all and got exelent results; not even blade warpage
file tested and wont even make a scratch; just scates off the edge.
sharpened and razor sharp with a dimond stone and wet hone stone
 
It probably cracked because you used water to quench the 5160. Try just oil. I use oil and never cracked a 5160 blade. Good luck!
 
Don't want to beat a dead horse here, Pal, just get yourself some quenching oil.
Quit messing around trying to find something that MIGHT! work.
This is the most important aspect of the blade!
You can make an absolutely magnificant looking knife out of the most expensive and high-tech steel you can find, but if you don't nail the heat treat, you have nothing and have wasted your time.
Use the stuff that is designed to do the job.
Get quenching oil.
Get quenching oil.
Get quenching oil.
 
Use real quenching oil. Something like these from Heatbath/Park Metallurgical;

#50 QUENCH OIL Low viscosity quench oil that approaches water in quench speed, yet gives a more uniform, less severe quench than water. Recommended for open quench system operating below 120 deg F.

AAA QUENCH OIL The most popular, widely used quench oil. This patented accelerated quench oil provides maximum, uniform cooling rate for austenitized steels, as well as clean, easily washed work when properly maintained.​
 
I have the KATANA video by Wally hayes.
The steel Wally used was 1050

I got some of that steel off the web by doing a GOOGLE search , and did a large knife with a great hammon .

Some steels need oil like 5160, however some other steels can be use in a water quench as the japanese do with their homemade steels.

the problem is that I have never had as good of luck with 5160 in oil, at getting a stand-out hammon as I have gotten with a water quench and 1050.

I think, that most guys that get the great 5160 hammons are able to do something I dont know how to do, or else they must etch the steel somehow after the quench..

My 1050 steel had a great hammon that i just sanded down to find and it just poped out.
 
Steels high in manganese (5160,01,52100,1084,ect) do not produce the best hamon and should be quenched in oil. Steels low in manganese (W2,W1,1095, 1050) produce more active hamon and should be quench in oil but some use water with some success. Here's a W2 blade quenched in oil.
 
I have a question then.

I was going to make another KATANA, out of 1050 steel and use of a water quench.

Now part of the fun/danger of the water quench is that it will cause the sword to curve. First one way, then the other way. Ending in the typical katana curve.

But the danger is that there could be a chance the blade will crack in the water.

If I quenched 1050 in oil, whould it curve?
 
Quench in water blade curves up. Quench in oil, blade curves down.

Sword makers who quench in oil are precurving their blades before HT.

1050 is the safest steel for a water quench and is done quite often with good results. You should be OK with 1050/water.
 
The blade that cracked was the wrong steel for the quenchant you used. The one that didn't warp was the wrong steel for the whole process you used. ATS-34 is an air hardening stainless steel that requires around 1950-2000F with a good soak time to harden. The treatment you did,with the clay coat, would have destroyed the blade if you had heated it enough. As it was you did not really harden it (not completely).I am not sure why a file "skates" off the blade,it should still be somewhat soft.The complex carbides that form in ATS-34 require a lot more heat than you stated you used?
Learning about the steels you use and the quench media they require is the key to successful hardening.
Stacy
 
I use extra virgin olive oil.... is faster than tranny fluid and veg oil.... I preheat my oil before quenching... Also, one reason I use this is that it smells like burnt fries instead of me cooking gaskets for dinner.... and if you are using your wife's oven.... safer too and less noise while you are tempering the steel....

Don, guess that is the w-2 I just got from you? nice noise in that blade.... can you give me some details on how you coat to how you polish.... Thanks buddy.....

awww also the type of etchant you are using.... I tired several things... seems like the really thinned out radio shack special is just easier to deal with than boiling vinegar or mixing citric acid powder to distilled water.... and so on...


Daniel Prentice
 
Daniel, 120 grit finish pre HT, edge .050-.060 thick, thin clay (1/8'' or so), heat to 1425F-1450F with a few min. soak, longer if electric oven is used and quench in fast oil.

Finish grind, hand sand to 1000+ grit, 3 or more 30 second etches in 3 to 1 water/ferric, rub black off of blade in-between with 0000 wool, ultra fine sponge or 2000+ grit paper, final rub with Flitz or simichrome, keep messing with it until you like what you see.

This is a very time comsumming process for me but I like the results.
 
Did you normalize the blade before your final hardening quench to relieve stresses in the steel?
 
Don't forget to normalize -at least twice.

You can do everything perfect and it will still crack in water without normalizing -trust me. I've done experiments on this... I've had three out of three crack that weren't normalized. It's worth the time.
 
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